Comments on: Ball Lightning in M10! New art!

By: Cid

Cid — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:53:36 +0000

Ball Lighting and Lightning Bolt in Standard? Oh baby. Things are looking up! If there are enough cards that can support a Sligh deck in Standard this will most definitely see play. Sligh doesn't care what you do, it just plays critters and burns face until someone dies.

By: Terry

Terry — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:28:20 +0000

It's obvious you're one with limited mental capabilities, anonymous. I'll refrain from being to abusive, as I don't feel like dealing with an abuse case.Let me start with kithkin: Burrenton Forge Tender was a 1/1 last time I checked. Ball Lightning, Spark Elemental, and Hellspark Elemental all have trample. That means it's more of a speed bump, as I can just assign one to it and the rest to your dome. Knight of Meadowgrain is dealt with by a simple magma spray/shock. Problem solved.Tokens: So, you must be a lucky man to always have a zealous handy. You have one for each ball lightning. I still have everything else in my deck, including volcanic fallout.5cc: So, your answer is a counterspell? And broken ambitions, at that. Historically, sligh/burn decks have done very well against control, and I don't think broken ambitions really changes that much. (Unless it has hidden text somewhere that says prevent all damage that would be dealt to you this game by red sources.)Faeries: Again, you have four peppersmokes, one for each Ball Lightning. Even if you do get lucky and peppersmoke all of them, I still have enough burn including volcanic fallouts to crush that fluttery pile of jank.And the reason groundbreaker wasn't played was because it was green. Green has no burn. (Unless they reprinted Bee Sting in time spiral and I was unaware. Even then, no one would've played it aside from you.)And I highly doubt standard will shape up to be shard decks, as the new dual lands push playing basics, making 3 colors a bit harder. And besides, white weenie and burn/sligh have always been viable decks since the beginning of magic.And my purse won't be hurting as I carry a wallet. That, and the fact that I don't spend money on magic. One of the benefits of being on a team and being best friends with the store owner here. Not all of us are good enough to be on a magic team though. Keep trying. You're going to Denver, right? I'll proxy the deck and we can play some games. Hopefully you'll bring fae, tokens, 5cc and kithkin.I suggest you take more time to evaluate your statements before posting. Furthermore I suggest getting a few more years of experience under your belt before giving magic advice, because it is epic fail sir.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:54:33 +0000

Its just as fast as kithkin. Check.Forge-Tender, Knight of Meadow grain ?It beats tokens. Check.Zealious Persecution – besides, tokens is dead postrotation.It kills cruel control before it can take control of the game. Check.Broken Ambitions, done. Run the curve, die by the curve.It slaughters the fae. Super Check.Oh wow now that everyone runs Peppersmoke i sure see how this guy slaughters fae. not.It can kill Swans before they combo off. Check.Swans is out since Fae is in.Give me just one explanation why Groundbreaker was not played in any deck at all but BL will. While its green and not red, green fits the "do damage fast" theme just as well. The Groundbreaker did not see any goddamn tournament play. Now you come around and say Ball Lightning will see substantial amounts of play.Besides, i told you, there will be 5 decks, one for each shard in just some weeks. Which deck can cast RRR and wants to do so.FYI, i will refrain from further giving you pointers. Buy your playset(s) of Ball Lightning and see how they will do your purse and your deck. Its obvious they are fail.

By: Carys

Carys — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:50:03 +0000

Wake Thrasher is played in a popular and strong Legacy deck, but it's not a viable card. Gotcha.I get that Eternal Witness is out. You, again, didn't ask for creatures that are legal now. Maybe you need to pay attention to your own damn questions.I also get that you were asking for 3-colored mana creatures, and I've pointed out why that's an idiotic question."By point stands.Ball Lightning will be less than 5 $ and considering RDW is going down i dont see a deck that could play it."RDW is going down? News to me. Loss of Demigod isn't a good enough reason, since no one uses Demigod anymore."Oh, about your note that it had impact the last time it was standard legal. Check the timeframe. Its been YEARS and there is this thing called powercreep."Yes, but that doesn't matter, because you wanted to know the last time that a 3-colored mana creature with 1 toughness had an impact. The timeframe since now and then, and powercreep, do not matter at all in the context of that question.Powercreep aside, Ball Lightning is still as powerful as many of the popular creatures prevalent in the format.

By: Terry Decker

Terry Decker — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:23:15 +0000

I think you should proxy up a decklist similar to the one posted earlier. It seems to disagree with you, killing quite frequently on turn 4. I think thats pretty good considering the fact that a turn 4 kill is before tokens build up their presense on the board, and with tokens being the most popular deck at the moment, I think a deck that can wipe it out before it does much at all will be played quite frequently, not to mention the deck will have superb matchups against faeries, and possibly even cruel control.Its just as fast as kithkin. Check.It beats tokens. Check.It kills cruel control before it can take control of the game. Check.It slaughters the fae. Super Check.It can kill Swans before they combo off. Check.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:13:50 +0000

Sorry if i burst your bubble, but legacy has douzens of viable decks and having one of those pack 2 waketrashers does not make it a viable card. It wasnt played when merfolk was good in t2, so its not relevant. Witness is out, point. It isnt played anymore at all. Besides, i did not ask about 3 mana creatures. I asked about ones with 3 colored mana (= less impact because they cant be splashed).Just compare Ball Lightning to Demigod. Its easier to cast, hybrid, easier to splash, it deals a constant 5, it comes back, it has real evasion. By point stands.Ball Lightning will be less than 5 $ and considering RDW is going down i dont see a deck that could play it. In just 3 months or what there will be naya, jund, esper, grixis, bant and none of those will stretch to cast a RRR spell.Its all about a curve and i dont see any tribe curving at 3 with ball lightning.Oh, about your note that it had impact the last time it was standard legal. Check the timeframe. Its been YEARS and there is this thing called powercreep. Groundbreaker saw exactly zero (yes, zero) play and that 2 years ago.

By: Andrew Crump

Andrew Crump — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:52:21 +0000

How is Wake Thrasher not relevant? It might not see play in Standard now, but it sees play in Legacy Fish decks. And Witness' status as "it-girl" a year ago is perfectly relevant as well, since you're not asking for 1 toughness, 3cc creatures that are relevant now.For 3 colored mana, there probably aren't any, but that's, again, why your question isn't interesting in the first place. Nothing is like Ball Lightning but Ball Lightning. Comparing it to other creatures is stupid. If you want to know the last time a 3-color-mana, 1 toughness dude had an impact on Standard, look at the last time Ball Lightning was legal in the format.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:34:51 +0000

Since when is Wake Tresher relevant and since when is Witness relevant ? Witness was the itgirl more than a year ago, tresher never was.Besides, i asked 3 oolored mana. They dont cost 3 colored lol.Forgetender THAT !

By: Andrew Crump

Andrew Crump — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:31:44 +0000

"Andrew, how about actually answeing my question. When was the last time a creatures w/ 1 toughness and 3 colored mana had impact?"It's an irrelevant question since Ball Lightning isn't the same thing as a typical creature, but since you insist– Wake Thrasher, Eternal Witness, and of course Ball Lightning itself. "I assure you, everone will pick hellspark over ball lightning. Since ppl dont even play hellspark at this point, why would they use ball lightning when a lot of the stuff that made rdw so good some months ago is leaving the format (flame spear, demigod, more)."No one plays Hellspark? Charles Gendron Dupont's Seattle finish says otherwise. If people would play Hellspark, they will play Ball Lightning. Flame Javelin leaving isn't important– it's just a burn spell, not a card that defines RDW as an archetype (and the only reason it's important is for killing dudes like Liege and Colossus, both of whom leave with it!). Another quality burn spell can replace it easily. The format rotation will only hurt RDW/Sligh decks if Zendikar and M10 feature no quality burn or creatures to support that style of deck.You're assuming that what makes RDW good is somehow specific to the Lorwyn block. It's not. Good burn and good dudes will always lead to RDW being viable in a given format."Besides, any reason why you didnt reply to my firststrike-case ?"Because unless the first strike has pro-Red, he's going to get killed by burn before the Ball Lightning makes an appearance. It's such a pedestrian question that I didn't feel like it deserved my attention.

By: KBR

KBR — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:53:44 +0000

You sure as heck toss a Shock at a 2/2 first striking Knight. Philosophy of Fire – if using little burn on a creature lets you push thru some extra damage on an attack, you do it. Sion, I think you should try a few RDW-style decks before dumping on Ball Lightning. As someone who's been playing the archetype since Revised edition, it is not there to replace Hellspark. It's there to be a 6 damage for 3 mana spell. Trust me when I say that one toughness is not really an issue in most constructed matches involving Red Deck Wins. Oh, and you just lose to monowhite/white weenie/kithkin most of the time ANYWAY, and Ball Lightning doesn't change that matchup at all. Just makes your other ones nastier for them.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:35:37 +0000

Then again, you dont aim your precious cards at creatures, as any decent rdw player will tell you. And if you play shock in the first place, you disqualify.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:19:23 +0000

4 Flamekin Bladewhirl('Ello, Jackal Pup. Nice to see you hangin' out with good buddy Ball Lightning again.) , 4 Hellspark Elemental, 4 Ball Lightning, 4 Spark Elemental (Hopefully it gets reprinted), some Hells Thunder, some Stigma Lasher and burn and you're good to go. Rumor has it that Lightning Bolt was tested for m10, and was found to not be too powerful. Guess we'll have to see. And as for first strike, its as easy as waiting for you to swing with that 2/2 knight or lobbing a shock at it. Problem solved. Any decent rdw player could play around that crap. =)

By: AncientSion

AncientSion — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 03:58:08 +0000

Andrew, how about actually answeing my question. When was the last time a creatures w/ 1 toughness and 3 colored mana had impact ?Not even talking about the whole sacrifice thingy.I assure you, everone will pick hellspark over ball lightning. Since ppl dont even play hellspark at this point, why would they use ball lightning when a lot of the stuff that made rdw so good some months ago is leaving the format (flame spear, demigod, more).Besides, any reason why you didnt reply to my firststrike-case ?

By: Andrew Crump

Andrew Crump — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:14:54 +0000

"When was the last a creature with 1 toughness and 3 colored mana had any impact on any format."This, combined with,"If you want to talk on this speculation site, at least pretend to be on the inside." makes me laugh at you. Feel free to continue being bad.

By: AncientSion

AncientSion — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:37:36 +0000

I will see how you stand up to your talk when darkblast kills your balllightning in extended and mogg fanatic kills it in t2, or White, Black and Meadowgrain firststrike it down.When was the last a creature with 1 toughness and 3 colored mana had any impact on any format.To the guy saying ppl prefer bb over wb: Get your facts straight. bb is more desireable, wether it be lotus, psionic blast, city of brass adarkar wastes or ball lightning. Noone values 5th or IA wastes higher than 10th ones. Not SCG and not your friend.If you want to talk on this speculation site, at least pretend to be on the inside.

By: Andrew Crump

Andrew Crump — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:33:51 +0000

AncientScion– so far we've gotten an awful lot of hints that Wizards is going to push us away from a format where 5-color decks are top-tier, and into a format where mono-color decks are good again. Ball Lightning's cost therefore is hardly prohibitive. And cost aside, Ball Lightning is flat-out superior to Hellspark, which requires more mana and another whole turn to do what Ball Lightning does in one turn for three mana. Are you seriously complaining about 1 toughness on a dude that corpses during your end-of-turn step? Really? KB has it right– when used correctly, cards like BL can be just as good as burn. In fact, when used correctly, they're often BETTER than burn, bringing your opponent's life total further down while also taking out one of their dorks. If the Red card pool is good enough to warrant it's use, BL is going to be a force in Standard for a while.

By: KBR

KBR — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:56:07 +0000

Ball Lightning's 1 toughness does not really factor. A sligh deck usually casts BL turn 3, when decks are still developing mana and making Bears. It's a classic "Philosophy of Fire" card, trading card advantage and a little mana for a TON of damage. The inherent risk of "lightning elemental" cards is that they're easily killed, but when timed right they can often just be as good as burn. He is going to be important to a Red Deck Wins archetype because Hellspark occupies the 2-drop spot and the 4-drop spot (Unearthing, and maybe casting something else). Considering most decks are really still working with 1-2 land on turn 3 in this format, you can really punish people with the 1-2 punch of Hellspark and Ball Lightning. It might not be an auto-include 4-of, but it's at least in the conversation.Factor in that it's an iconic "burn" card that people love, being reprinted in Standard for the first time since 5th Edition, and you can see how it will beat out regular 5 dollar rares. Players who have been around for a while, like myself, LOVE that card. Whining about the 1 toughness is like complaining that Necro makes you lose life.

By: stacker

stacker — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:44:47 +0000

wb does not beat bb … a LOT of people prefer the newer cardface and value the reprinted painlands more than the ia versions.and there's a LOT of ball lightnings in the market…maybe $4-5 in the long run, but NOT $10

By: AncientSion

AncientSion — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:37:53 +0000

Andrew, who cares about Ball Lightning ? Hellspark is easier to cast and can come twice.Besides, 1 toughness on such a big boody sucks.

By: Andrew Crump

Andrew Crump — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:25:55 +0000

Finally. No more imitators. No more pretenders. The one, the only, the original, is back. Burn decks always exist in some fashion or another, but they don't always stand at the top of the pack. I think with some good quality dudes and burn spells to back up BL, Sligh could end up being one of the best decks in the new Standard. I have a hard time seeing Ball Lightning get reprinted without having strong support cards to rely on.