Comments on: New Phyrexia Leak: the Real Problem https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Sun, 01 May 2011 22:27:03 +0000 hourly 1 By: Doug https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-15091 Sun, 01 May 2011 22:27:03 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-15091 That's a pretty intellectually-dishonest comment, though. I don't really get a hit of jealousy in this; more than any other article, it raises the question about why we hadn't heard that some pros get spoilers before.

Most of all, it reminds me of the quote that "Caesar's wife must be beyond suspicion." This is a good, succinct summation of it:
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Caesar%27s+wi

Simply knowing that several high-performing players had access to spoilers and shared them with each other, perhaps frequently, casts suspicion on their entire performance, even if they did no actual wrong.

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By: @JoshJMTG https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-15031 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:48:43 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-15031 In reply to @the_toMatto.

It's possible, but the content of their remarks makes me think they really aren't getting them.

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By: @the_toMatto https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-15027 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:06:49 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-15027 In reply to @JoshJMTG.

Would high-profile authors and whole sites reveal they've gotten godbooks in the past after the events that just happened? Personally, I'd think they'd keep their mouths shut to avoid public backlash.

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By: @JoshJMTG https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-15026 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:01:11 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-15026 In reply to @glassthegrey.

According to the conversation on twitter yesterday, SCG and CF have never received godbooks, and CF's high-profile authors were all saying they didn't get godbooks.

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By: @glassthegrey https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-15024 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 18:47:35 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-15024 Most sites staff writers for larger publications actually have access to godbooks, I'm certain most if not all of SCG's premium writers are getting godbooks, this includes Patrick chapin, Brian Kibler, Evan Erwin, and Flores (but he is also a staff writer for MTG.com). I'm sure the whole channel fireball crew has that godbook.

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By: @JoshJMTG https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-15023 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 18:30:16 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-15023 In reply to @Siorghlas.

I don't know how you could possibly enforce people with godbook access not buying cards on ebay or whatever. It's a fine idea in theory but in practice it only works in the stock exchange because it's one centralized market.

The secondary Magic card market has more in common with a black market than with the well-regulated stock market. It even has people meeting up in parking lots off Craigslist going "You got the stuff?" "Yeah, it's in my trunk".

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By: @JoshJMTG https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-15022 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 18:21:00 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-15022 To make the details a bit more clear – from what I'm reading, Wizards did not give the godbook directly to Matignon. They gave it to Lotus Noir, who gave it to Matignon to write the set review. This doesn't substantially change the discussion – whoever Lotus Noir (and the other magazines) gave godbooks to still gain an unfair advantage over the rest of us.

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By: RadicalEuclayptus https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-15019 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 18:00:33 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-15019 In reply to @SecludedGlenn.

I agree with this.

Matignon may not have insufficiently randomized his deck, or drawn extra cards, or anything directly related to playing in a tournament, BUT, since the Godbook was given to him for the express purpose of publishing an article, and he used it for a completely different purpose which directly involves gaining an advantage in a DCI-sanctioned tournament (extra playtesting time, leaking to another pro, etc), then it is entirely appropriate for the DCI to levy this kind of sanction.

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By: @SecludedGlenn https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-15018 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:31:14 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-15018 * …is enough evidence that this…

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By: @SecludedGlenn https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-15017 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:30:06 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-15017 In reply to @JoshJMTG.

Wizards gave Matignon the spoiler for the purpose of writing the article, true. The fact that it was given to other people, ostensibly for playtesting (by David Gauthier's IRC admission) changes a lot about how they evaluate the matter. That claim by David is enough evidence of that this information was being used and distributed in a way that threatened tournament integrity.

Threatening the integrity of tournament play is a ban-worthy threat to the DCI–that's what cheating does by definition.

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By: @JoshJMTG https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-15016 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:14:38 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-15016 In reply to @SecludedGlenn.

It's not a contradiction. I don't like people getting DCI bans for things that are nowhere mentioned in the tournament rules. It's basically a ban as vigilante justice because they can't/won't take them to court.

The advantage they gained is a threat to the integrity of tournament play. But they didn't gain that advantage by leaking the set to the whole internet. Wizards gave Matignon the unfair advantage to begin with, for no reason other than he's a writer for Lotus Noir. The set getting leaked to the entire internet neutralized the unfair advantage WotC gave him (and however many others).

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By: @SecludedGlenn https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-15015 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:05:05 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-15015 From the article:

"DCI bans should be reserved for people who actually cheat, steal, commit fraud, or otherwise ruin tournament play.

What kind of advantage has [Matignon] received by getting additional time to test for tournaments with new cards?"

Is there a reason you wouldn't consider your own secondary point a threat to the integrity of tournament play? You say you shouldn't be banned from the DCI unless you cheat, and then you spend half the article implying that this godbook grants an illegal/unethical advantage.

I don't actually care very much one way or the other, but your self-contradiction is puzzling. Clarify?

Also, the "ban" on competitive play you suggest would need to extend until a set time after the set is legal, otherwise it doesn't keep them from using the advantage they have gained. However, it's untenable in practice either way because Wizards needs people to promote their product more than the (relevant) writers who promote it are compelled to do so. All professionals would rather play barring strange circumstances, so instituting this rule would really just lose Wizards a significant portion of its most popular marketing outlets (professional players in well-known publications).

As someone who has worked in the TCG marketing industry for years, let me tell you that people rarely respond well to rules for rules' sake when it's easier for them to just not help you and continue about their lives. The carrot and stick works because there is a carrot.

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By: Tyler https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-15009 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:12:14 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-15009 Great article and a much needed discussion. I wonder how many people were expecting these leaks to be the fault of Pro-level players. Oofta.

@Sioghlas makes a very astute point about the financial aspect of knowing what cards have the possibility of warping the format before everyone else. A lot of speculative profit can be had by scooping up and selling off certain cards. A lot like insider trading.

The cautiously cynical part of me can't help but (unfoundedly) wonder if the banning/unbanning plans are somehow accessible to those who could take advantage of the information as well. But I suppose that's a different beast altogether and there's no reason to make jumps like that. Still can't help but wonder, though.

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By: ertaislament https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-15004 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:07:52 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-15004 In reply to @starwarer.

Agreed. I differ with the initial author on the same point- in my opinion, all things considered if this is all there is, the handful of morons in France got off rather lightly.

We might well have seen the 'end of the godbooks' as a result of this.

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By: @Siorghlas https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-15003 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:12:59 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-15003 From what I've read elsewhere, the godbook (I haven't seen it) is dated in January. Have the pros with access to the godbook received it with how much advance…? Could it be a full 3 months before mere mortals? This advantage alone imbalances the tournament odds overwhelmingly in favor of already top players, that will continue to be there. A lot of testing time, finding new stategies and combos, knowing the best and more expensive cards beforehand… too many advantages!

I think there should be a strict policy of NO DCI playing for those that have access to it, at a minimum they shouldn't be allowed to play before 1-2 months have passed since set release, to level the playing field (and I am being considerate to them not proposing forbidding it for the full time until next set, thinking writers wishing to do so should have a shot at playing).

And, as with privileged information laws regarding stock exchange, all people with access to godbook (of course that includes Wizards personnel) should be forbidden to negotiate with cards before set release: they could potentially make a huge speculative profit (e.g. "I know there will be a new card that combos with a currently underrated one, lets go buy a load of them; also, this planeswalker will be reprinted and be cheaper, I will sell mine now and get them cheaper later…")

This whole leak matter has exposed some serious problems we wouldn't be aware of if it hadn't happened that NEED to de dealt with, and as an unintended positive consequence levelled the playing field for New Phyrexia: let's see if the tournament landscape turns out more competitive in the following months.

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By: F-WOTC https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-15002 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:24:33 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-15002 WOTC and the entire "pro" tour process lost all integrity with this. They've been playing favorites, lying, cheating, and effectively stealing from players who aren't getting their paid-off bullsh!t advantages.

This is cheating, plain and simple. The "pros" have all been cheating to get their advantage with full advanced spoilers. The only thing they're "pro" at is kissing the most ass at WOTC, rubbing enough elbows, and rubbing who knows what else.

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By: @starwarer https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-14997 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 06:12:11 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-14997 While I can understand the dismay regarding length of suspensions, to claim that these sorts of bans harm the integrity of the DCI is hard to accept. It has to do with Magic, therefore, the DCI has jurisdiction to levy punishment. It has for as long as I've been aware of the DCI. Why is this hard to accept? It is a privilege, not a right, to be allowed to play in a Magic tournament. The DCI and WotC have simply stated that that privilege is no longer being extended to these players.

In regards to your Twitter comment ("As far as I can tell, there is nothing in the Magic Tournament Rules or the Infraction Procedure Guide about leaking spoilers.")
The MTR and IPG are guidelines. They are not meant nor designed to cover every circumstance. Corner cases (such as the leaking of a Godbook) are not included. Additionally, the DCI is not limited to only acting in accordance to what is stated in the MTR and IPG. The only time the word 'suspension' is mentioned in either document, in fact, is the MTR stating that "Wizards of the Coast reserves the right to publish penalty and suspension information."

I do agree that it seems unfair for some pros to have an advantage that access of this kind engenders.

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By: Wobbles https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-14993 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 04:57:52 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-14993 There is also the factor of giving players and possibly professional card buyers access to a spoiler in advance of their competition. I mean you’d never give out b/r announcement to some players or stores before others.

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By: @JoshJMTG https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-14990 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 03:09:59 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-14990 In reply to Doug.

Note that they both effectively lost their level 8 benefits. The people who got suspended until October 2012 are locked in at their current 2011 point totals, and depending on how WotC interprets the "no benefits for suspended players" rule they may not even get those benefits in 2012. Matignon of course is losing everything.

From what I've been reading on twitter, godbooks are given to the print magazines early so they can get a full spoiler out after the set releases, because of the lead time that print magazines have to have.

I don't think it's even necessary to get a full spoiler out in print magazines these days. A checklist of card names in the local language should be more than sufficient, I imagine.

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By: Doug https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/04/new-phyrexia-leak-the-real-problem/#comment-14988 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 02:48:48 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=13220#comment-14988 I really liked this.

My personal experience comes as a soon-to-be lawyer; we have legal ethics courses and a separate exam on ethics alone (yes, get your lulz out 🙂 ). One of the big things is that you have an affirmative duty to disclose bad information, even if you don't want to, even if you think you can get away with not doing it. If I had my level 8 riding on this, with my 30k/year+ benefits, I'd be making sure Wizards knew I had this as soon as someone offered it to me.

You raise REALLY good questions about how long these guys have had godbooks, and for how long they've been getting them. That's a pretty big story in itself. If QS got a spoiler a month ahead of everyone else, we'd have the potential to make a lot of money from it. I'm sure these guys had that chance, too.

Also, WHY ARE WE DISTRIBUTING GODBOOKS TO FRENCH MAGAZINES? WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS SMART?

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