Comments on: FREE Insider: Thirty-Three Innistrad Calls for your Prerelease Pleasure https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/free-insider-thirty-three-innistrad-calls-for-your-prerelease-pleasure/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:54:13 +0000 hourly 1 By: @Gamble4Value https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/free-insider-thirty-three-innistrad-calls-for-your-prerelease-pleasure/#comment-25540 Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:54:13 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=21085#comment-25540 In reply to @JoshJMTG.

PIF is strictly worse than IGG. How many times have you seen a turn where you have more than 3 rituals in your graveyard that IGG isn't enough. If in any situation PIF is better than IGG that situation is win more rather than just win.

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By: @Gamble4Value https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/free-insider-thirty-three-innistrad-calls-for-your-prerelease-pleasure/#comment-25539 Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:52:04 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=21085#comment-25539 In reply to Vale.

TES doesn't need a comeback. Any situation looking past LED is a lost cause. There is no reason to attempt going off in a situation using IGG, If IGG isn't a safe answer. If you are playing TES instead of ANT you should have them under a chant or if you are playing ANT you should have cast a few duress effects and know what you still have to battle through. If 5 storm isn't enough to finish an infernal tutor loop to kill them then you probably aren't winning anyway.

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By: Vale https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/free-insider-thirty-three-innistrad-calls-for-your-prerelease-pleasure/#comment-25515 Fri, 23 Sep 2011 06:58:01 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=21085#comment-25515 You dismiss the most important fact about PiF. It gives TES and the like somerhing it was never able to do in his whole existance: A Comeback

If you are low on cards and life TES was dead. No IGGY, AN or Diminishing Returns can safe you here but PiF is able to do so.

Remind that if you draw it past LED, you can pop it and flashback it instead. Even if you wish for it and it got countered you have another try.

IGGY gives you additional 5 storm if your combo out but doesn’t help you get to this point unlike PiF. It’s not THE no1 card in TES but a sure no2

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By: Patrick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/free-insider-thirty-three-innistrad-calls-for-your-prerelease-pleasure/#comment-25514 Fri, 23 Sep 2011 06:46:39 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=21085#comment-25514 In reply to @JoshJMTG.

As a guy who's tested Past in Flames in a combo deck, the card is not better than Ill-Gotten Gains, especially in decks that run Burning Wish. You either have to have an additional Burning Wish or Infernal Tutor in your hand/graveyard when you resolve it since Burning Wish exiles itself. Ill-Gotten Gains recurring Lion's Eye Diamond is one of the most powerful thing a combo deck can do in this format. This is especially true if you're playing a five color deck like TES since its usually protected by Chant so it doesn't care if it casts Ill-Gotten Gains. The inclusion of Past in Flames and Ill-Gotten Gains as wish targets seems redundant to me. If you're running chant effects, this even more true. You also needless create another weakness for your deck since two out of your three Storm engines are now vulnerable to graveyard hate. Your better off running Diminishing Returns; if you have at least two mana floating in some combination of blue, red, or black, you're running at better than 50% odds that post Diminishing Returns you'll win. @Gamble4Value is right, if you're worried about recurring countermagic, your better off casting Ad Nauseam or Diminishing Returns.

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By: @JoshJMTG https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/free-insider-thirty-three-innistrad-calls-for-your-prerelease-pleasure/#comment-25508 Thu, 22 Sep 2011 23:52:22 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=21085#comment-25508 In reply to Ian Ellis.

You'd probably run both in the sideboard but just Past In Flames in the deck, otherwise Ad Nauseam gets hurt somewhat. Wishboard looks like this:
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils
1 Past in Flames
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Eye of Nowhere (wishable bounce)
2-3 other utility cards?
7-8 "normal" sideboard cards

That doesn't seem too bad.

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By: @torerotutor https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/free-insider-thirty-three-innistrad-calls-for-your-prerelease-pleasure/#comment-25505 Thu, 22 Sep 2011 22:53:12 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=21085#comment-25505 Great article dude, welcome to the team!

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By: Ian Ellis https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/free-insider-thirty-three-innistrad-calls-for-your-prerelease-pleasure/#comment-25495 Thu, 22 Sep 2011 18:06:00 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=21085#comment-25495 In reply to @JoshJMTG.

Or are you implying playing another 4cc spell in the deck?

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By: Ian Ellis https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/free-insider-thirty-three-innistrad-calls-for-your-prerelease-pleasure/#comment-25494 Thu, 22 Sep 2011 18:04:45 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=21085#comment-25494 In reply to @JoshJMTG.

So, you're implying that it's better when you have Multiple Rituals? Fair, but you need 3 rituals in order to continue to go off. That makes 3, 5, or 7 mana from rituals (Dark) – Infernal Tutor (1B) – leaving you with 1, 3, or 5 for the tendrills. Additionally you need a mana floating and, if your Graveyard is light, you had better not be using Cabal's as you may lose Threshold and be producing less. This option leave you with Tendrills, the decks preferred win condition (as it wins there, not the next turn).

Right of flame only works if you have multiples in the yard, but you'll be dropping how much mana you can make each turn (Since they don't count their selves towards the bonus as they're on the stack – Doesn't work like Gravetroll and Dread Return). So that makes 2, 4, or 7 mana per copy in the yard respectively. Seems like that's more work for less payout unless all 4 are in the yard. Again, this is assuming you are floating the mana required to play the first. Also note, This way also required the Empty the Warrens or Grapeshot win (Which if you're looping this, you're probably already behind so This option pretty much is gone) unless you have access to BB.

No matter which way you cut it, LED is just better. With no mana floating you produce 3+X where X is equal to the other ramp spell's gain – Casting cost. (Dark Ritual is 3-1 totaling 2 additional mana). Double LED is 6 mana no matter what, and paired with Infernal Tutor is enough to Tutor for Tendrills and play it (usually resulting in a win). If you are using another ramp, you are required to have the additional mana floating, or take another route… This usually leads to your own death.

Hope that's helpful. Nice article Josh.

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By: @JoshJMTG https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/free-insider-thirty-three-innistrad-calls-for-your-prerelease-pleasure/#comment-25491 Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:18:38 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=21085#comment-25491 In reply to @Gamble4Value.

If you cast Past in Flames you can flashback more than 3 cards, which means you can get more rituals – which means you aren't necessarily losing mana vs what IGG would get you by returning LED.

You certainly aren't taking LED out of the deck – it plays far too well with Infernal Tutor and Burning Wish, and you can even use it to make mana for PIF if you have to.

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By: @steveexplosion https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/free-insider-thirty-three-innistrad-calls-for-your-prerelease-pleasure/#comment-25489 Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:25:24 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=21085#comment-25489 In reply to @Gamble4Value.

More accurately, while PIF is close to IGG, Rite of Flames isn't even close to LED.

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By: @Gamble4Value https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/free-insider-thirty-three-innistrad-calls-for-your-prerelease-pleasure/#comment-25486 Thu, 22 Sep 2011 08:09:02 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=21085#comment-25486 In reply to @Gamble4Value.

Generally how many times are you casting IGG without getting an LED anyway? Or even Duress, Cabal Ritual, Infernal Tutor? I just don't think Past In Flames is even close to IGG.

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By: @Gamble4Value https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/free-insider-thirty-three-innistrad-calls-for-your-prerelease-pleasure/#comment-25485 Thu, 22 Sep 2011 08:07:36 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=21085#comment-25485 In reply to @JoshJMTG.

I disagree. I think IGG is better because it allows you to recur an LED. If your playing TES you probably have them under a chant anyway so it wont matter. In straight up ANT the IGG isn't generally the route to go against blue decks anyway unless you can get Duress, LED, Tutoror and beat their Force, Blue card, X.

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By: @JoshJMTG https://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/free-insider-thirty-three-innistrad-calls-for-your-prerelease-pleasure/#comment-25482 Thu, 22 Sep 2011 06:24:12 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=21085#comment-25482 As a guy who's actually played a Tendrils deck to a money finish, I just want to say that you're wrong about Past in Flames. It's basically a straight-up improvement over Ill-Gotten Gains because it doesn't let your opponent recur counterspells. It's a 2-of (1 main, 1 in the Burning Wish sideboard), but it's not a Commander-only card.

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