Comments on: Musings on Bannings https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Fri, 01 Feb 2013 01:36:05 +0000 hourly 1 By: Jon https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42625 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 01:36:05 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42625 Formats that don’t rotate can always be called “stagnant”. Unless you’d like to elaborate more on what makes the format stagnant I’ll take it with a grain of salt. Delver of Secrets hasn’t even been around for two years though, so saying it has been a top tier deck for 2+ years is a bit of a stretch. While this will probably shake up the places that certain decks hold in the metagame, it won’t actually diversify the format. It’s not like new decks will emerge now that storm is gone, plenty of decks with awful storm matchups already occupied slots in daily events.

I can say from personal experience that red decks are not a bad matchup for post. And while we could argue about this all day, it won’t actually do anything. Maybe people pilot post decks differently or have builds that skew the results, but I wouldn’t say goblins or mono red is favored against post. As for infect losing invigorate…There’s a format where the infect decks don’t have access to invigorate. It’s called Silverblack, and the rest of the deck is nearly identical. I have played against these decks and they are not even close to the same without that card. I’m not saying the archetype will die, but I don’t think it will be earning many tix.

I am not making snap judgments. I have played warrens storm for quite a while. I played it before people knew how to play against storm in pauper. I played it when it got completely hated out of the format. I played it when everyone else and their grandma was playing it. And I have played countless matches against it. I think I have a pretty grounded idea of how Empty the Warrens impacts the format. And I don’t think its impact was detrimental enough to warrant a ban. I think the storm decks actually helped keep the format balanced. Maybe that’s just another word for ‘stagnant’.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42624 Thu, 31 Jan 2013 23:21:59 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42624 In reply to Ryan Overturf.

You’re the one that seems to feel the need to impress me, sooooooooo

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42596 Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:38:30 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42596 Stop snap judging that they’re correct.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42595 Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:36:57 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42595 In reply to Jon.

I think it’s pretty easy to conceive of a monoblue deck that beats post. Pre-Delver I was winning about 90% of my matches against post with MUC. All you need to do is not by dregs like Cloud of Faeries.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42594 Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:35:42 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42594 In reply to Ryan Overturf.

Quote me where I said that the deck doesn’t get worse. Stop wasting both of our time with your drivel.

Also your claim that BBE is the most unfair card in the format is outrageous, especially when your entire argument is that the deck wins fair mirrors. Emrakul is probably the card you’re playing if you’re doing unfair things in modern.

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By: Jon https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42583 Thu, 31 Jan 2013 07:58:23 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42583 I actually think the pauper bans are bad for delver decks. The way I see it, the top tier of the pauper format is three decks: delver, post decks and storm decks. This trio has a rock/paper/scissors relationship. Storm loses to delver, which loses to post, which loses to storm. Now with storm gone, delver has decent matchups against the rest of the field, sure. But post’s worst matchups (infect and storm) just disappeared, making it a much more appealing choice than it was pre-ban, and it was even pretty popular then! I am predicting the return of post mirrors, and for anyone who complained about dying to storm on turn 2…you have never had the pleasure of playing a post mirror.

I do think familiar storm will make a comeback, especially in a sea of post decks. At the same time, if post is the uncontested best deck now, land destruction will start creeping into maindecks. Who knows, but I’m glad you mentioned the pauper bannings. I don’t support them at all.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42577 Thu, 31 Jan 2013 00:23:37 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42577 Bloodbraid Elf made Jund too good in Standard. Bloodbraid elf is a card that is too good not to play in Jund in Modern. This banning won’t stop Jund from being a top deck in modern and when I’m proved right you can buy me a coke or whatever.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42576 Thu, 31 Jan 2013 00:22:20 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42576 In reply to Gus Landt.

On a technical level WotC classifies only those two formats as eternal, but players are still going to recognize eternal as meaning non-rotating. I almost wrote “non-rotating” but didn’t because I guarantee you people knew what I meant.

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By: Gus Landt https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42574 Thu, 31 Jan 2013 00:06:59 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42574 In reply to Matthew.

Wrong.

Check the

Banned/Restricted page

This question was on both my rules advisor test and my L1 judge practice test. “Select all the Eternal formats”. I got it wrong the first time because I selected Modern.

Only Legacy & Vintage are Eternal.

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By: Matthew https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42560 Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:32:40 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42560 In reply to Gus Landt.

Modern is an Eternal format. Eternal formats are just ones in which cards don’t rotate out.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42559 Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:31:17 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42559 In reply to Ben Logan.

I agree. While BBE isn’t what makes the deck the force that it is, it is the card that involves the most variance/ can reward poor play the most. It’s easy to perceive BBE as the major problem and that’s what most of the community does, and with WotC catering to popular opinion over most anything else the BBE ban is, like the Seething Song one, consistent if not very sound.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42556 Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:27:25 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42556 I disagree that the decks were completely non-interactive. You always needed to be mindful of what responses your opponent had to your combo and side boarded games involved paying quite a lot of mind to your opponent. I think it’s fair to say that this constitutes interaction.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42554 Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:25:03 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42554 In reply to Anthony Fox.

Those are two facets of the argument that are contingent on different factors. They are so far from contradictory that I don’t even know how to address your comment.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42553 Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:23:58 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42553 In reply to Gus Landt.

Eternal meaning non-rotating.

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By: Ben Logan https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42549 Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:14:10 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42549 I very much agree.

I just got into pauper. It was advertised to me as one of the “purest” magic formats, that combo, control and aggro are all equally viable. Now wizards just banned combo from the format. I know that R&D has decided that combo is a terrible thing, but let them force that policy on standard, leave pauper alone. When I play in person with friends, we’re just planning on ignoring the bans.

I feel like they banned bloodbraid because they had an image problem, not a metagame problem. Jund happened to win a couple of tournaments. But look at the top 8s of those tournaments! Additionally, look at the number of people playing jund. Of course jund will see some finishes when such an absurd number of entrants play it. People liked to whine about jund dominating, but to be honest, most of those people were just bad at magic and didn’t know what they were talking about. It saddens me that the dci appeased them.

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By: Anthony Fox https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42540 Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:22:51 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42540 On the one hand, you complain that the format is being steered in such a direction that Burn could be a viable Tier 1 deck, on the other you want a reprint (functional or actual) of Price of Progress. You really can’t have it both ways.

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By: Gus Landt https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42539 Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:46:44 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42539 “bannings in eternal formats only lead to more and more bannings ”

While I don’t disagree, I don’t see what place this sentence has in this article. No bannings were made to either Eternal format.
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.as
There are only 2 Eternal formats, and Modern isn’t one of them.

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By: David Schumann https://www.quietspeculation.com/2013/01/musings-on-bannings/#comment-42537 Wed, 30 Jan 2013 13:52:14 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=35827#comment-42537 “Just make a functional reprint of Price of Progress and see how long a deck like Jund could continue to dominate. Hell, Standard is hurting for such a card as well. Let’s be real; basics are truly awful right now. A PoP effect would kill two birds with one stone. ”

I couldn’t agree more…I don’t like this “perfect mana” Magic we have going right now…I remember the days when you wanted to tap a land for mana of different colors you took 1 damage for it.

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