Comments on: Insider: Greed and the Art of Mulligans and Manabases https://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/07/insider-greed-and-the-art-of-mulligans-and-manabases/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Tue, 18 Jan 2022 02:33:07 +0000 hourly 1 By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/07/insider-greed-and-the-art-of-mulligans-and-manabases/#comment-129883 Thu, 24 Jul 2014 12:30:53 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=49576#comment-129883 In reply to Shawn Dewey.

All fair points, and they’re definitely agreeable. But are you saying it’s one-sided issue? Do you never lose to drawing plains over blue land or spell in more conventional games?

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By: Shawn Dewey https://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/07/insider-greed-and-the-art-of-mulligans-and-manabases/#comment-129612 Thu, 24 Jul 2014 04:43:34 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=49576#comment-129612 Also, I meant to say a Mountain added to the side board. I am really sucking at this.

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By: Shawn Dewey https://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/07/insider-greed-and-the-art-of-mulligans-and-manabases/#comment-129609 Thu, 24 Jul 2014 04:42:22 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=49576#comment-129609 Should haved typed hands with double Plains or Plains and Karakas in my comment, typing from my phone.

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By: Shawn Dewey https://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/07/insider-greed-and-the-art-of-mulligans-and-manabases/#comment-129607 Thu, 24 Jul 2014 04:40:12 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=49576#comment-129607 Some miracles lists run Mystic Gate as a way to increase the number of keepable hands that contain Karakas or Plains. I’m not super-concerned about those, though, as they don’t happen frequently. A Volcanic could be turned into one and a Mountain could be added; sometimes Volcanic is the worst land in the deck, but sometines it’s the best, like vs. combo.

I definitely agree that fetching duals against Waste is important, which is something I do all the time with this deck. However, one feature this manabase has from most others is the ability to play around Wastes depending on the fetchland and basic draws or through Wastes with dual lands. The deck has 19 U sources, which is a very high amount for a main color in legacy, and 16 for its secondary color, which is very unusual. While the situations don’t happen frequently, they do happen, and having that many basics is helpful against random jank you encounter since the deck is so slow. At Milwaukee, I played against three lands decks, and this many basics means you can almost always ignore their Loam shenanigans and Entreat eot or in your upkeep, depending on how many Ports they have in play. Against rug Delver months ago in a local dual land event he had Waste lock and lethal on board in three turns amd I had a Top and Island in play. Fetches into basics and the eventual sweeper dug me out of that hole and I was able to destroy him with CB, then Jace, then Batterskull. In the same event I played against an aggro loam list, and both the swiss and top 8 were won handily by stabilizing my mana with basics then Entreat, which they basically can’t beat.

Sure, if I am playing against combo, Plains is easily the worst land, but I am very comfortable with the combo matchups with this deck and with the frequency of this happening it’s not a huge concern.

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By: David Schumann https://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/07/insider-greed-and-the-art-of-mulligans-and-manabases/#comment-129172 Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:12:51 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=49576#comment-129172 In reply to Ryan Overturf.

But I do agree that for other legacy decks your points are very valid. Miracles is the only one I’d deem a true “control” deck (in that the goal is to go to the late game by controlling the early/mid with counterspells), most blue decks are aggro/control (I put RUG/BUG/Stoneblade Variants/etc in this camp) and thus it makes more sense to have “perfect mana” when you need it early then more mana later.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/07/insider-greed-and-the-art-of-mulligans-and-manabases/#comment-129090 Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:53:29 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=49576#comment-129090 In reply to David Schumann.

I suppose that’s fair, and the difference is probably too negligible to just sideboard the Plains.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/07/insider-greed-and-the-art-of-mulligans-and-manabases/#comment-129086 Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:49:20 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=49576#comment-129086 In reply to Justin.

I won both games. The Standard win was way more convincing, while the vintage involved my opponent not having many counter spells. That’s really not the point at all though

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By: David Schumann https://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/07/insider-greed-and-the-art-of-mulligans-and-manabases/#comment-129052 Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:27:49 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=49576#comment-129052 Very interesting article and I definitely agree with many of your points, but being the Miracles player I am I too play the second plains in the deck and the reason is quite simple. You usually play a very slow game. The decks that tend to run wasteland (with the exception of Death and Taxes) run a lot of cantrips which they use to dig (sometimes for wastelands when you’re showing all non-basics and they know your a mana hungry deck). With Miracles it’s critical to not only hit your hand drops, but ideally keep your lands in play, even with the second plains your basics still only account for 27% of your total land package, thus while the probability that you’ll draw that second plains when you needed a tundra isn’t 0 you have a much higher probability of drawing either the tundra or a fetchland for it compared to the second plains. And while it’s not really seeing as much play anymore, the ability for decks with Loam to wastelock you is a real concern. While that strategy can’t gaurantee you don’t cast JTMS with only 1 plains it can’t keep you from casting your Entreats.

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By: Justin https://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/07/insider-greed-and-the-art-of-mulligans-and-manabases/#comment-128973 Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:22:16 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=49576#comment-128973 So what happened with the 7-card Devotion and Vintage hand keeps?

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