Comments on: Insider: Paradigm Shifts in Legacy Delver https://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/11/insider-paradigm-shifts-in-legacy-delver/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Tue, 18 Jan 2022 02:29:31 +0000 hourly 1 By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/11/insider-paradigm-shifts-in-legacy-delver/#comment-250475 Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:40:22 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=53233#comment-250475 In reply to David Schumann.

I know you can’t pay for Pierce with delve, but with Cruise in the format it’s easier for these decks to play lands instead of sandbagging them to Brainstorm away. I think you’ll find in practice that it’s difficult to effectively Spell Pierce in the mirror.

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By: David Schumann https://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/11/insider-paradigm-shifts-in-legacy-delver/#comment-249728 Wed, 05 Nov 2014 17:51:02 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=53233#comment-249728 In reply to Ryan Overturf.

That’s a fair counter-point. I may hate treasure cruise as a spell….but I do think your list is likely the best variation to take proper advantage of it. I also don’t know if Spell Pierce really gets “worse” with Treasure cruise so dominant…they can’t pay the Pierce cost by removing more cards and the deck still plays only 8 actual mana sources…so making them use up 1/4 of their potential mana base to not have their most critical spell get countered is still pretty solid. I do agree that Gitaxian Probe is somewhat questionable, so I like your 2/2 split on those two (though I’d be bold enough to go 3 pierce/1 probe).

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/11/insider-paradigm-shifts-in-legacy-delver/#comment-249587 Wed, 05 Nov 2014 16:22:38 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=53233#comment-249587 In reply to David Schumann.

It’s mostly the fact that Stifle takes spell slots and Waste takes land slots, and spell
slots are more valuable. I also value things like, as you said, blowing up Tabernacle\ Grove of the Burnwillows as much better than only hitting fetches.

The big emphasis is that waste proactively makes daze better, while stifle relies on leaving up mana that you may or may not use at a point in time when the deck is particularly hungry for sorcery speed mana.

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By: David Schumann https://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/11/insider-paradigm-shifts-in-legacy-delver/#comment-249367 Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:09:21 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=53233#comment-249367 Good article….I like your reasoning behind most cards…my only counter-argument is that you’re For Wasteland…but against Stifle, yet these cards are typically used for the same purpose (inhibiting your opponents mana base and slowing their board progression). I feel like your argument against stifle is well reasoned and that including wasteland seems extraneous. If you accept going more long game thanks to Treasure Cruise than it sounds like you want more colored sources to cast your spells (or fetches to fill your yard and cast your spells)…granted I see you’re down to 2 wastelands so the “protection” from Tabernacle might be enough to warrant their inclusion…

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