Comments on: The Dangers of Banning Birthing Pod https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Sat, 29 Apr 2017 09:08:51 +0000 hourly 1 By: Kurt Simmons https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-1867906 Sat, 29 Apr 2017 09:08:51 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-1867906 In reply to Capricorn907.

I still stand by this 100%.

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By: Capricorn907 https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-1177715 Thu, 20 Aug 2015 06:54:50 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-1177715 Really, the lands are the only staples in the deck. If you knew Birthing Pod, the deck and you knew it’s contents, you’d agree with me when I say this. Orzhov Pontiff, Birds of Paradise, Reveillark, Shriekmaw, Murderous Redcap, Wall of Roots, Reclamation Sage, Sin Collector, Birthing Pod, itself, none of those are played in much else. Therefore, not a staple. Like yeah, Rhino, Ooze, and Finks, but that’s really it. Voice, Hierarch, Linvala, same story… Like you said, Hatebears is the first to come to mind, but Pod players aren’t going to regress to something like that. If you’re familiar with Modern, you’ll understand that Pod was a utility belt that took these below average cards and abused them with ETB effects. So, no; No staples. The first thing I did when I learned Pod was banned was try to figure out how I could salvage the remaining parts, and Hatebears was it. Does that sound like a deck made of staples to you? I played the deck for 4 years, long before it was popular.

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By: Brecht Van R https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-381244 Tue, 27 Jan 2015 13:14:58 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-381244 In reply to Frank Lepore.

why is modern not an eternal format?

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By: Quintin https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-370675 Fri, 23 Jan 2015 01:46:27 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-370675 Pod probably wasn’t the issue the problem I think was siege rhino always cascading into lightning helix and being so easy to find. I expect a rhino ban and a pod unban.

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By: Matt Rob https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-369789 Thu, 22 Jan 2015 18:11:42 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-369789 I highly, highly recommend that anyone looking to play some kind of midrange deck in Modern but who lacks a playset of Tarmogoyfs to consider buying a playset of Tasigur, the Golden Fang while he’s relatively cheap. He can come down for two or one mana pretty much as quickly as Goyf, but has the added advantages of (i) not shrinking once he’s in play, (ii) being resistant to Abrupt Decay, Lightning Bolt, and Dismember, and (iii) delving away stuff that possibly shrinks your opponent’s Goyfs, and (iv) generating card advantage in the mid- to late-game.

Seriously, Tasigur is about the closest any card has come to being Tarmogoyf-lite in Modern. Playtest him if you need further proof.

🙂

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By: JStangsWorld https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-369676 Thu, 22 Jan 2015 16:47:59 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-369676 I feel like WIzards felt they could not print powerful ETB cards because of Pod, It was changing the way they were making cards at R&D. So now I am excited to see what the new cool creatures they want to print are:)

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By: Doki Tops https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-367966 Wed, 21 Jan 2015 21:45:57 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-367966 I suffered a bit from the DRS ban. And fully understand why it was done. For me this is the reason to enter modern. Also the biggest investment is in the land base and the cards with value irregardless of pod. A shake up is needed from time to time. Just my 5 cents.

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By: Frank Lepore https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-367698 Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:56:17 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-367698 Modern isn’t an Eternal format, and even Eternal formats have cards banned from time to time, including this most recent time!

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By: Theo King-Martellock https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-367591 Wed, 21 Jan 2015 17:43:35 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-367591 I can’t click on the link because there are no computers under this rock.
Wait a minute….

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By: Vhaluus https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-367306 Wed, 21 Jan 2015 14:01:25 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-367306 In reply to thehordling.

Hatebears pretty much isn’t a thing anymore. The two decks it preyed upon were pod and delver. It has lost its best matchups and gained no new tools.

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By: phyrexiantrader https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-367256 Wed, 21 Jan 2015 13:17:09 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-367256 great article, great insight. based on the discussion I read here, I’m not the only one who likes this insight. Only thing I’m afraid off now is who or what will fill the gap of Pod.
I’m afraid that splinter twin is a dangerous competitor. It was already a good competitor before, and could take over the crown.

Personally, I didn’t expect them to ban the whole deck, but just a piece of it (archangel, spike, finks, …). But it shakes up the format, and combined with MM15, change can stimulate the interest in the format.

However, I’m curious to know how deep economics is involved in this decision. Maybe it has nothing to do with the bannings…

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By: Swindley https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-367088 Wed, 21 Jan 2015 10:33:18 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-367088 I know some guys that lost their modern deck, and can’t afford a new one.. They said they are now quitting modern as they can’t afford to play anymore, and they have no backup deck..
If cards were cheap, I guess it would help, but as others have said, you can’t expect people to pay 900$ if they want to play midrange.. I played kiki pod and feel a bit screwed, but at least I have other decks..
People spend months trading to get together a deck, especially students and younger people, and now suddenly they can no longer play modern.. Maybe in a few months..

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By: jonathan prichard https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-366970 Wed, 21 Jan 2015 08:53:40 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-366970 In reply to nick.

I totally agree with this point. by saying they want other creature decks to be a viable option is good in theory but every other creature deck runs tarmogoyf as a 4 of meaning the barrier to entry is now very high. like Nick said if the upcoming MM2015 was a high print run and the booster packs not over priced then this wouldn’t be so bad as players would find it easier to move to another deck.

I mean why would anyone spend high amounts to build a tier 1 modern deck when it will just have a key card banned. by being successful you shoot yourself in the foot. the barrier to change decks is just too high

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By: nick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-366821 Wed, 21 Jan 2015 06:43:19 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-366821 If wizards was proactive with reprints and never let modern staples rise too high in price, this ban would be a breath of fresh air to the meta.

Regrettably, Wizards seems to care little about the cost of entry in their eternal formats, making a ban like this far more catastrophic than it should be. Instead of resigning to building another $150 deck, we are instead forced to build another $900 deck.

Lower costs would also soften the blow of investing in a theory-deck which didn’t quite work out, letting more people experiment with decks and thus lowering the compulsion to netdeck and once again diversifying the meta.

Also MM15 will only go to further harm the cost of entry, as small-scale reprints like these create far more demand than supply, creating even higher prices.

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By: Marten https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-366001 Tue, 20 Jan 2015 21:19:38 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-366001 I think pod was only so prevalent because it was one of the few decks that could survive the oppression of the delve cards. I’ve never found pod to be an unmanageable match-up, and I was really looking forward to building the deck. I think it will see an un-ban in the coming years because it’s one of the few ways to play a mid-range deck. If it’s banned on win percentage logic, what goes next? Mox Opal? valakut? Lily? Goyf? Lightning bolt?

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By: Chester M. Moon https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-365945 Tue, 20 Jan 2015 20:36:32 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-365945 I look at it in a different way, I feel the ban was shortsighted. It feels like we are going full circle in modern all the way back to Jund everywhere. I feel pod was more of linchpin in the format, instead of the big bad wolf. It was strong enough to keep certain decks from being oppressive, but not oppressive itself in a healthy meta. The arguments that it got stronger with more card selection were flawed. It also got more difficult it make a winning list at the same rate, do to more archetypes to tune for.

The biggest problem for most ban arguments, is they rarely account for how the Meta shifts in response to said ban. Sometimes it grows more diverse, but more often than not it turns into whack-a-mole. In this instance I feel modern gets less diverse causing another change to the ban list within the next two sets.

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By: parisite https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-365940 Tue, 20 Jan 2015 20:32:47 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-365940 In reply to abc.

Very well put^

Good article Danny!

As exciting as it is to see my favorite format showcased at the ‘Pro Tours’, the cost of this is just too steep when every card is under the micro for WOTC ‘pros’
….and for now seeing this most recent bans- which I believe was extremely carelessly executed (I believe the problem could have been solved by some careful Unbans- which would have propped up the format, encouraged brews and still made for an interesting and diverse PT)….
One of the biggest pulls for me into modern was diversity of cards, archetypes and strategies…WOTC seems to want to make modern into standard 2.0> which imo will kill it….
…I’ll be interested to see how my local modern community rebounds from this and how the format evolves (it was hard enough to get modern events to fire before this…..)

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By: abc https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-365771 Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:14:05 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-365771 This article raises an interesting point- who really benefits from the banning of Pod? The decision seems to have been focused on Pro Tour-level players. Do those players (and coverage of those players) make up a large enough block of the MtG community to drive such decisions? For every one PT-level player relieved to see Pod gone, how many casuals and FNM-level players just lost their deck? And was the FNM version of a Pod deck at the same power level as the PT version? For example, how many non-competitive players built their deck without Linvala, Hierarchs, and the fetches, allowing them to play an affordable albeit less powerful version of the deck? Basing such decisions on the PT-level meta can definitely have some nasty ripple effects in the casual community. awhile back I decided not to build any ‘serious’ Modern decks for this very reason.

I’m not a MtG financier, but if I were I would ditch Modern cards in the very short term. The format is too prone to reprints and bans, and the unknown print run for Mod masters 2 should be a real concern. WotC clearly doesn’t want to leave lots of money on the table with this set like they did with Mod Masters 1, which means the print run will be large enough to keep the packs at the $10 mark. I’m reminded of so many collectibles in other hobbies where the first version was a Grail item and the second version with the “slightly” larger pressing started out pricey but then quickly plummeted in value as people realized it wasn’t really THAT limited like the first one was.

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By: Sigmund Ausfresser https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-365685 Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:22:50 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-365685 As a Pod player in Modern since the format began, I’m extremely bummed about this banning. I always felt like the deck was a bit too robust, but results were never as oppressively lopsided as, say, Flash-Hulk or Survival decks in Legacy. So I thought…maybe…just maybe…Pod would dodge the banhammer. I guess my own flair for the deck clouded my senses.

My plan now is basically to try my very best to tweak a Melira deck by removing Pods, adding Chords back, and making the deck mostly focused on the combo. If this fails, I’ll likely bail on Modern. I really don’t want to drop hundreds of bucks to build some other deck – especially when I KNOW so many cards are about to be reprinted. 🙁 Maybe if decks get cheap after MMA2015 I’ll re-evaluate.

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By: Charles Fey https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/01/the-dangers-of-banning-birthing-pod/#comment-365654 Tue, 20 Jan 2015 16:57:59 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=56065#comment-365654 Modern can’t deliver cheap, professional magic. The best cards are paradoxically some of the most valuable and always at risk of being banned or reprinted.

There’s no good entry point for people who crave the “stability” of only having to freshen up their favorite deck periodically with cards from new sets because the key cards of the format are simultaneously expensive and at risk of becoming valueless.

This is remarkably in contrast with expectations for the format and that’s going to lead to an awful lot of tears over the years, assuming this particular fiasco doesn’t deal Modern a fatal blow. If you were burned by Deathrite / the cruise meta and switched to Pod only to get banned again, are you really reinvesting? At some point it’s cheaper to buy a fucking Xbox already.

In any case I think it’s very important to stop buying foils of Modern staples. It’s clearly not a format where you should be “pimping” your favorite long-term deck. Instead the mandate is to stay liquid, and frankly that isn’t what people were hoping for.

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