Comments on: Magic Origins – Early Hits and Misses https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/07/magic-origins-early-hits-and-misses/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Wed, 22 Jul 2015 03:02:58 +0000 hourly 1 By: Tim https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/07/magic-origins-early-hits-and-misses/#comment-2121446 Wed, 22 Jul 2015 03:02:58 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3262#comment-2121446 Sheridan, what are your thoughts on Avaricious Dragon in Jund? You mentioned Reid Duke’s recent promotion of it briefly in the article but didn’t offer your opinion on its effectiveness, and I’d love to know what you think.

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/07/magic-origins-early-hits-and-misses/#comment-2121445 Wed, 22 Jul 2015 02:48:56 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3262#comment-2121445 In reply to John.

I’ve found that instead of focusing on the claim, focus on the actual effort the author is putting forth and what you can learn from it. I wouldn’t even worry about the stats from Jordan’s testing, nice as they are, but really read the details of those test games. Count the times that Day’s made a difference, make note of when the opponent thwarted it, or even took advantage of it. Use his information to prepare yourself to use/face Day’s. Study the interactions, because those are what help improve both our understanding of the card and our skills as a player.

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By: John https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/07/magic-origins-early-hits-and-misses/#comment-2121444 Tue, 21 Jul 2015 21:38:23 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3262#comment-2121444 In reply to Sheridan Lardner.

Your reply is nice and pretty well reasoned, and its true. Card evaluation is very tricky, and you are right that it is pretty early to draw conclusions.

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By: Rodrigo Santamaria https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/07/magic-origins-early-hits-and-misses/#comment-2121443 Tue, 21 Jul 2015 20:12:40 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3262#comment-2121443 In reply to Rodrigo Santamaria.

also check the prize of Gilt-Leaf Palace, goes from less than a buck to almost 12

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By: Rodrigo Santamaria https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/07/magic-origins-early-hits-and-misses/#comment-2121442 Tue, 21 Jul 2015 20:11:30 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3262#comment-2121442 I think, that Shaman of the Pack will have a huge impact in Elves Company (now BG Elves), improving the ratio Kill. If you not get swarmed you’ll drained anyway.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/07/magic-origins-early-hits-and-misses/#comment-2121441 Tue, 21 Jul 2015 19:20:54 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3262#comment-2121441 In reply to John.

A few things on this. For one, it’s way too early to draw format-wide conclusions about Origins. Although some cards slotted into decks pretty easily (Harbinger), others have heavier deckbuilding requirements. We’ll need more events and data to know how those cards do. With Undoing already seeing early success in Legacy Affinity (6th at SCG Chicago), it’s only a matter of time before it makes its way to Modern.

As for card evaluation, every site has hits and misses with new cards. For instance, authors on both SCG and CF gave Narset, Transcendent glowing reviews, but she’s fallen flat across the board. Similarly, many sites didn’t quite appreciate Kolaghan’s Command when it was first spoiled, despite its later success. We can’t promise a 100% evaluation average. We can, however, promise thoughtful, well-reasoned, and supported claims, which is what Jordan made in his Undoing articles.

Overall, we’ll need to wait and see how the metagame adjusts to the new Origins cards!

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By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/07/magic-origins-early-hits-and-misses/#comment-2121440 Tue, 21 Jul 2015 19:19:12 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3262#comment-2121440 I wouldn’t be too alarmed about the lack of sightings for Day’s Undoing – Naya Burn was working pretty darn well as it was. Any player looking to get in on Undoing would have to either cut a color, or run yet another set of shocks, which some players might balk at (if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it sort of deal). I’ve tested it, and I think it’s been very good, but I haven’t run into many mirror matches just yet. I also think that it’s going to take a while for people to figure out how to best approach the Goblins issue – there are a lot of ways to skin that cat (the Blitz-style deck you posted, AEther Vial-centric aggro, token-based aggro, etc.), and it’s going to take some time to figure out which one works best in the Modern meta. Hallowed Moonlight will also take some time to see play, because (as you said) white isn’t super popular right now. However, I do expect Day’s Undoing to tilt the BGx scale a bit more in Abzan’s favor, based on Jordan’s feedback with his Day’s Undoing-fueled Temur Delver deck. Once that happens (and maybe if a UWR resurgence occurs – it’s doing really well on MTGO right now from the win percentage POV), you’ll see some more Hallowed Moonlight.

That said, I do think that Pia and Kiran Nalaar’s absence from these early decks is the sign of something greater – it’s been unable to dislodge Huntmaster of the Fells from Jund decks, and I don’t think they ever will (it’s not like that card was an ironclad part of the core). I also worry about Languish -4 power may be suppressing Abzan’s offense on that turn to the point that they don’t actually want to play it, despite it being a selective sweeper in many cases.

Hangarback Walker strikes me as being a bit too much of a slower value-type play to truly be a transformative force in Affinity, but it might be worth it as a 1- or 2-of. I don’t really like playing Spellskite mainboard in a primarily aggro deck anyway, and that makes for a decent “2-drop” and Modular counter repository.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/07/magic-origins-early-hits-and-misses/#comment-2121439 Tue, 21 Jul 2015 19:11:46 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3262#comment-2121439 In reply to Zach.

I expect we will see more Day’s Undoing in the weeks to come. Without the pressures of a GP or PT on the horizon, there isn’t a lot of urgency to Modern innovation right now. So it will take a little time for players to figure out the best way to use the powerful Undoing effect.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/07/magic-origins-early-hits-and-misses/#comment-2121438 Tue, 21 Jul 2015 19:10:47 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3262#comment-2121438 In reply to Kim Josefsen.

Of course! We will need lots more data to know for sure. But with the first Origins results now on our radar, we definitely want to check in and see how cards are doing. We’ll keep adding more results to this and check back in as the format keeps evolving.

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By: John https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/07/magic-origins-early-hits-and-misses/#comment-2121437 Tue, 21 Jul 2015 19:03:05 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3262#comment-2121437 I don’t want to be rude or anything, but like you said in your article, we didn’t see any day’s undoing. One of your writers made the claim that that card would push entire decks out of tier one. If this doesn’t prove true, won’t this cast an extremely unfavorable impression on that writer and this site? Sure writers can make claims, but if you make a claim that big, and it just falls apart, that signals to me that this isn’t really a site that’s content is good.

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By: Zach https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/07/magic-origins-early-hits-and-misses/#comment-2121436 Tue, 21 Jul 2015 16:49:33 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3262#comment-2121436 It will take a bit of time and the sheer flood of testing that comes with the MODO release before we see the full impact of Origins. Although Modern lists haven’t tried it yet, Day’s Undoing had good success in Legacy Affinity, putting up a 6th place finish at last weekends SCG Legacy Event in Scott Muirs’ list running 3 copies.

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By: Kim Josefsen https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/07/magic-origins-early-hits-and-misses/#comment-2121435 Tue, 21 Jul 2015 16:37:50 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3262#comment-2121435 Honestly it is too soon to say anything about the impact of cards from ORI when we’ve barely had a week to use it! Cards like Kolaghan’s command or Collected Company didn’t prove their viability in modern within a week of being legal in the format, it takes time for people to a) get the cards, b) test them and c) show up in tournaments.

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