Comments on: Modern White Weenie: White Goyfs https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Fri, 08 Jan 2016 13:07:04 +0000 hourly 1 By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121839 Fri, 08 Jan 2016 13:07:04 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121839 In reply to Raimundo Pilotto.

Sorry I didn’t reply to this earlier!

I don’t think the Ally subtheme is supported enough yet. Blademaster is good, but I have a strong aversion to 2 drops in a deck like this, and I don’t feel there’s a strong enough payoff. If we get another solid 1-drop Human Ally in Oath, though, then I would strongly consider running it, Freeblade, and Envoy in place of things like Soldier of the Pantheon and Mardu Woe-Reaper.

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121838 Fri, 08 Jan 2016 13:04:20 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121838 In reply to Samuel Cabrera.

If you aren’t going to play Lynxes and fetches, then I would actually recommend you drop down to 18 lands and possibly 16, though I haven’t tested 16. The only reason to run 20 lands is to power up Lynx, and having fetches effectively means you’re not really running 20 lands anyway. Without fetches, 20 lands is overkill.

Lynx is a very tough card to replace, as it is the single most explosive turn 1 play White has access to. It’s a bit like playing Burn without Goblin Guide, or Zoo without Wild Nacatl. I think Honor of the Pure is actually a pretty sensible replacement, since your hope is to compensate for the loss of a more explosive turn 1 play with a global pump ability. It’s possible you’d be better off running more 1 mana 2/1’s in its place, or even something like Accorder Paladin, but Honor would probably be my first try.

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By: Samuel Cabrera https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121837 Fri, 08 Jan 2016 06:04:47 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121837 Hey I really want to try this deck but Honestly the fetches are too expensive for now and I would preffer to get everything else, what could I replace? I already took out the lynxes and added enough plains to cover the 20 mana base, I replaced the Lynxes with Honor of the pure, is there anything that you would recommend as far as mana base and replacements for lynx?

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By: Raimundo Pilotto https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121836 Sun, 25 Oct 2015 05:04:33 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121836 Hello!!!!! First of all, it’s a beautiful deck. My girlfriend sleeved this up and she’s doing it great 🙂
One question: what do you think about Hada Freedable and Kazandu Blademaster for the deck, now that they have Expedition Envoy to grow????
Sorry for the bad English, I’m from Argentina.
Keep rocking it!!!! 😀

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By: Catmix https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121835 Mon, 12 Oct 2015 03:52:30 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121835 Finally read this article! Hope you’re still brewing and tweeking! Catch you in the forums soon?

-Catmix

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By: Nicholas Andrew https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121834 Mon, 14 Sep 2015 21:03:56 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121834 Have you thought about 1 or 2 Return to the Ranks in the sideboard?

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By: John Gniadek https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121833 Wed, 26 Aug 2015 23:53:50 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121833 In reply to Mariano.

If I was going to splash, I’d probably start with red to test out adding burn to the deck in place of the Dismembers and Braves, but I’d probably leave the creatures alone. I’m not crazy about Swiftspear in a 6-spell deck, and once you start cutting creatures for more spells, you’re making Boros Elite/Kytheon worse, and if you start cutting those for more spells, you’re making Champion worse, and if you start cutting those for more spells, you really ought to playing Burn at that point.

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By: Mariano https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121832 Wed, 26 Aug 2015 21:04:57 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121832 Hey! Have you considered a red splash for Lightning Bolt, Boros Charm, Monastery Swiftspear and Abbot of Keral Keep? Not for the prowess, but for the ability to let you go into combat bluffing tricks (or not bluffing cause you might have them) cast more dudes off the top without having to lose hand density and being able to have reach and close matches faster?

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121831 Sun, 23 Aug 2015 04:28:06 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121831 In reply to John Gniadek.

Great points here. I’m looking forward to reading more of your articles!

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By: John Gniadek https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121830 Sat, 22 Aug 2015 14:50:11 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121830 In reply to Anonymous.

Honestly, I’m not crazy about it, but I can understand why it’s appealing. Generally speaking, you don’t want to board in value cards, so if you’re bringing in graveyard hate it should be to win the game more or less on the spot.

The funny thing about Grunt: even though it has an excellent power-to-card ratio, it doesn’t have a particularly impressive power-to-mana-cost ratio. For the same amount of mana, you could play 2 Mardu Woe-Reapers, which are thoroughly unimpressive, and be representing the same amount of damage. Yes, that’s 2 cards instead of 1, but that’s actually going to be beneficial for you more often than not (pumping Champion, turning on Boros Elite/Kytheon, etc.). I think there’s a temptation to play “good cards” in a deck like this, but when the deck is as sensitive to its internal synergies as this one is, it’s often better to play “bad cards” if they work better with the deck’s plan. I mean, take another look at Ornithopter’s text: it is an atrocious Magic card, but it is crucial to Affinity’s synergies.

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By: Anthony https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121829 Fri, 21 Aug 2015 13:02:57 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121829 In reply to John Gniadek.

Those are all really good points.

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121828 Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:37:36 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121828 Thoughts on Jötun Grunt as a way to control graveyards and get a quick beater in?

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By: John Gniadek https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121827 Thu, 20 Aug 2015 23:18:01 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121827 In reply to Anthony.

Glad to hear it! I have a thread on MTG Salvation on this deck (it’s in the Modern Deck Creation section, called Mono-White One-Drop Goyfs), so that might be a better place for future collaborative discussion on the deck itself.

As for Warden of the First Tree: I think it’s more in line with the deck’s original intent than some of the other splash suggestions (it’s a 1-drop Human that gets bigger than a Savnnah Lions, which this deck is always on the lookout for!), but it’s not without its own downsides. It doesn’t get protected by Brave the Elements, which I think is actually pretty significant, and the 3/3 vanilla body, while large, is probably sliiiightly too small for the mana cost, and given the amount of mana it would take to get bigger (especially considering that the trample/lifelink don’t increase power or toughness), I don’t think you’re realistically getting it bigger than an active Boros Elite. It would obviously be better on defense once you’ve activated it the first time, but overall I’m not convinced it’s worth taking the 2 damage from Temple Garden.

But definitely give it a try if you want! I don’t have the time to tinker around too much with the deck, so I tend to try to stick to core theoretical principles as much as possible, but I’m sure there’s plenty of room for experimentation.

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By: Anthony https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121826 Thu, 20 Aug 2015 14:29:52 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121826 Great article! I’m looking to build this deck myself.
Have you considered adding two Temple Garden so that you could play Warden of the First tree?
It’s human and it pumps with white mana.

I’m building this in paper myself and might test out Warden.

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By: xJoSh https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121825 Thu, 20 Aug 2015 07:30:47 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121825 In reply to John Gniadek.

Wow! That was awesome, thanks for the detailed answers!

I will get some free time today to start testing, is great to know how good is the Lynx!

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By: John Gniadek https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121824 Wed, 19 Aug 2015 20:55:27 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121824 In reply to Roland F. Rivera Santiago.

Jund: I’d agree that Jund is probably a sliiiiightly better matchup than Grixis, and 50/50 might be closer to correct. My experience has been that despite White Goyfs’ redundancy, Jund’s discard can completely destroy our hand. It could be that moving up to 34 creatures from 29 moves those percentage points up enough, but I agree that it does feel a bit coin-flippy.

Merfolk: you may be right. I haven’t played this matchup in a while, so I’m mostly trying to use my experience with the Merfolk vs. Death and Taxes games I’ve played recently and extrapolate from there. I think early disruption is crucial from the Merfolk player; otherwise, I think their lords come down too late to matter. Chalice is an evil card, but unlike something like Engineered Explosives, it doesn’t clean up what’s already been dumped onto the battlefield. The hope would always be that the Merfolk player never draws it, of course.

I agree that Grishoalbrand would be a problematic matchup. You have some tools to deal with it in the sideboard, but all-in combo has never really been a good matchup for aggro swarm. Elves also feels like it would be at least slightly unfavorable. I’ve had some success against Tron, but it’s tricky trying to balance playing around Pyroclasm/O-Stone while also trying to kill them quickly. Wurmcoil Engine is also a problem, but Karn not so much. I actually think Abzan could be a worse matchup than Jund: this deck has a number of draws that have trouble against Lingering Souls, especially if they’re on the play.

I wish I had more time to playtest the deck and give more concrete answers on the matchups, but I just don’t have that much free time on my hands anymore. I’m lucky if I can get out to my LGS every other week to battle in a 12-or-so person Modern tournament. Regardless, I would pretty much always rather be on the side presenting the threats rather than being on the side that has to try to draw the right answers (usually costing more mana) on time.

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By: John Gniadek https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121823 Wed, 19 Aug 2015 20:34:45 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121823 In reply to Adam.

Thanks!

Fetches are pretty crucial, since they power up Steppe Lynx. If you took out the Lynx, you wouldn’t need to run any fetches, but that’s a huge sacrifice. Lynx gets in for a ton of damage in this deck, and cutting it means Champion is really your only potentially explosive turn 1 play.

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By: John Gniadek https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121822 Wed, 19 Aug 2015 20:30:54 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121822 In reply to Matt Schuster.

Thanks! A splash seems reasonable, though I’m not sure that the extra 2 damage off of a shock is worth the upgrade over Mana Tithe to a Spell Snare or Spell Pierce. My gut says that Day’s Undoing would be better as a 1-of, and even then I’m not sure it’s worth it. 3 mana is a ton in this deck.

Red also seems like a good choice, and Bolt would be one of the obvious reasons. White Weenie with reach has been a good combination for me in the past.

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By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121821 Wed, 19 Aug 2015 19:50:46 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121821 In reply to John Gniadek.

I disagree with the assessments on some of these matchups.

I’d call Jund about 50/50 with Kytheon’s ability to go indestructible and Student of Warfare’s first strike coming up huge, plus any deck that can neutralize the likes of Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse (via Brave in this case) and make Dark Confidant (mostly) a sacrificial blocker as opposed to a card advantage powerhouse is going to do at least OK against Jund. Note that these do not apply to Grixis Control, so I feel your assessment on that matchup is pretty spot-on.

I also think Merfolk will give you more issues than you anticipate – Brave is a huge trump card, but they pack counterspells (including Chalice of the Void, which can basically lock you out of the game), and Spreading Seas/Vapor Snag/Harbinger of the Tides can disrupt your tempo (especially if they bounce a Champion of the Parish or deny you a 2nd white source). And if they manage to do that, you’re in big trouble – their creatures are quite easily larger than yours, and tend to be harder to block. Furthermore, they’re less likely to run out of gas because of all of the native cantrips they have (8 to your 0). I’m not going to say that they’re favored against you (the speed of White Weenie is definitely a concern), but I’ll say that it feels 50/50.

I’d also like to hear what you think of the Tier 2s – a quick glance tells me that Grishoalbrand could be tough for you without something like Rest in Peace or Mana Tithe, and that Elves’ linearity could also pose a problem. On the other hand, RG Tron has to pray for Pyroclasm or be overwhelmed, and Abzan is probably weaker against you than Jund is.

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By: Adam https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/modern-white-weenie-white-goyfs/#comment-2121820 Wed, 19 Aug 2015 18:45:42 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=3936#comment-2121820 How important are the fetches to the deck, and will the deck still function without them, or any white fetches at all?

Also awesome write up, congrats on your finish!

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