Comments on: Primers: UR Twin https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Thu, 10 Sep 2015 22:02:10 +0000 hourly 1 By: Sam P https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121970 Thu, 10 Sep 2015 22:02:10 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121970 In reply to Lucas.

UTron is fun, but extremely difficult to beat as UR Twin. I think Will doesn’t know UTron that well I guess… At any rate, you want to side out the combo first and secondly tempo them out. You want to transform into a tempo deck which means bolt-snap-bolt, using Clique as a beater, bring in dispels, negates, and even Keranos to just jam a grindy threat.

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121969 Sun, 30 Aug 2015 06:02:44 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121969 In reply to Sheridan Lardner.

Because this article is complete trash. The sideboard “primer” and I use that word lightly, is garbage?

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121968 Sun, 30 Aug 2015 05:58:11 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121968 In reply to rogl.

Why keep in any decievers against jund? Because this guy is a numnut.

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By: rogl https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121967 Fri, 28 Aug 2015 21:21:03 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121967 this list is suboptimal and your sideboard advice is actively bad.

3-4 dispel is mandatory in this deep blue metagame.
shackles is a bad batterskull and even batterskull is unplayable right now.
shatterstorm is a bad ancient grudge.

why are we leaving in dispel against abzan and affinity but siding it out against infect?
why are we boarding in blood moon against twin and leaving it on the sidelines against infect?
why would we want spellskite against jund? why would we leave it out against affinity and burn?
why on god’s green earth would you take out dispel against amulet bloom?
why would you cut remand in the snapcaster mirror?
why are we leaving in so many lightning bolts against everyone? what does lightning bolt do against amulet bloom or grixis control or UWR? why are we cutting electrolyze against snapcaster decks? do we really expect lightning bolt to be better against opposing snapcasters than electrolyze?
why do we ignore the importance of ancient grudge against collected company and infect?

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By: Lucas https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121966 Fri, 28 Aug 2015 01:23:56 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121966 In reply to will.

Yeah, GR tron is a great match-up. But I’m asking about Utron, or Mono Blue Tron. They don’t run Karn (Karn is pretty bad when you play it outside of T3/T4), don’t prioritize getting tron asap (they can win a lot more games without tron than GR tron can), and run a plethora of interaction in comparison to GR tron.

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By: Wow https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121965 Thu, 27 Aug 2015 18:32:28 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121965 Wow I’m pretty sure I just lost most of my brain cells. This is the worst guide I have ever read in my life. I would stop playing magic if I was you and pick up baseball cards at least you don’t have to play an intellectual game with them.

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By: bones https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121964 Thu, 27 Aug 2015 17:33:16 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121964 In reply to Sheridan Lardner.

YAY!

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By: Phobos https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121963 Thu, 27 Aug 2015 12:42:45 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121963 In reply to Boogelawoof.

Cause you can remand your own spells and gain value, also can remand bombs like Jace or Keranos…
And flashbacks spells

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By: will https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121962 Thu, 27 Aug 2015 02:54:46 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121962 In reply to Curtis.

Hey! In hindsight it’s probably right to leave in 2 or so against any of the delve-based control decks, but you totally want more hard counters in these match ups.

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By: will https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121961 Thu, 27 Aug 2015 02:54:07 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121961 In reply to Lucas.

In hindsight, it’s probably right to leave in 2 remand against the control decks running the delve creatures! Tron is actually pretty good – tapping the tron lands on upkeep keeps them off the Karn/Wurmcoil for awhile, and the interaction game one is next to nil outside of O-Stone.

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By: Michał https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121960 Thu, 27 Aug 2015 02:33:17 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121960 In reply to Michał.

P.S Sorry for my bad english 😛
P.S 2. Pestermites are better against “abrupt decay” meta and Deceiver is better against current “bolt, bolt, bolt everywhere” meta
P.S 3. Thank for reading this 😛
P.S 4 I’m reading modernnexus from “grixis” articles. I love this site ^^

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By: Michał https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121959 Thu, 27 Aug 2015 02:26:55 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121959 Hi! I’m playing twin from 4 years now. Unfortunetly i can’t agree with part of this primer.
Here’s the list i am playing now:

Creatures 13:
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Pestermite
2 Vendilion Clique

Inst/sorc/ench 24:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
4 Remand
4 Splinter Twin
2 Cryptic Command
2 Dispel
1 peek
2 Spell snare
2 Electrolyze

Mana Base 23:
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
1 Breeding Pool
5 Island
1 Mountain
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Cavern of souls

Sideboard 15:
1 Engineered Explosives
2 blood moon
2 Anger of the gods
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Spellskite
1 Dispel
1 Teferi, mage of zalafir
1 Counterflux
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Keranos, god of storms
1 Roast

IMO sideboard guide in this primer is kinda wrong. If i would play Will’s deck my sb guide will look more like this:
Jund/Junk:
This MU always was bad for UR Twin. IMO sideboard in this deck is poor against them.
Board-in: 2x Blood Moon; 1x Keranos; 1x Teferi; 1x EE; 1x Negate; 1x Counterflux;
Board-out: 3x Twin; 3x Deceiver; 1x Peek
They have over 9000 thousand removal and discard so trying to combo-off is a nightmare. After sideboard we are going to play UR control with keranos as a win-con. A bunch counterspells is good idea in this matchup.

Affinity:
board-in: 1x Shatterstorm; 1x Explosives; 1x Spellskite; 2x Grudge; 1x Anger; 1x Shackles
board-out: 4x Remand; 1x Dispel; 1x Peek; 1x Clique
Shatter and grudge are obvious here, EE and anger are our additional sweepers. Spellskite is must-be card cause it’s only thing in deck that can block etched champion. Shackles are intresting here as they can stole they champion and give us few turns of live.
Remands are just bad in this mu, they’re giving us nothing except draw 1 card. Would you play instant card “draw 1 card” for 2 mana? Peek, and clique. We dont need hand information in this mu cause they usually don’t have cards on hand. Dispel is another poor card. After sideboard we probably have between 4-8 targets for it and those targets are not rly important.
Just try to stabilize situation on board and then comfortible combo-off

Burn:
MU favorable for us but also skill testing for both players.
Board-in: 1x Dispel; 1x spellskite; 2x Negate; 1x counterflux; 1x anger;
Board-out: 1x Vendilion; 4x Remand; 1x Roast;
Counterspells are our most advantage here so we should use as many as possible (except remands, same situation i wrote for affinity). If they can’not remove spellskite you probably will get easy win. Try to combo-off them and stay tuned for 4x Destructive revelery from them. (Why in this list is only 1 spell snare :/???)

Tron/bloom:
Here i can agree with Will about sideboard but I will add counterflux and dont remove dispel as i can destroy amulet bloom “hive-mind” plan and can stop tron from destroing our mana base with boil.

Infect:
Board-in: 2x Blood moon; 1x Anger; 1x EE; 1x Shackles; 1x Spellskite; 1x Dispel; 2x Negate; 1x Grudge
Board-out: 4x Remand; 1x peek; 2x clique; 1x Deceiver; 1x Twin; 1x Crypitc;
In this matchup we want to stabilize board situation and then play our combo for free win. Blood moons are great here cause they can win game for us, also they are turning off inkmoth nexus and pendelhaven. Counterspells are here to counter they creatures boosts. Grudge is dedicated for they spellskites they will bring against us.

Grixis/ UWx:
I played grixis for few months now and board-out remands sounds like joke for me…
No comment here.
Board-in: 1x Dispel; 2x Blood moon; 1x negate; 1x Teferi; 1x Keranos; 1x Counterflux
Board-out: 3x Twin; 3x Deceiver; 1x Peek;
It’s another mu where you are probably not able to win by combo. They have too many removals and counters. Again here we go with control plan. (don’t play blood moon against UR twin)
Moon is rly intresting in MU with grixis. If they did not expect moon its just free win for us. It’s not best card here but it give huge advantage when is played correctly.

Twin:
Totally depending on deck your opponent’s playing.

COCO variants:
Here is fine in primer. (but i would think about playing moon here :D)

Merfolk:
Fine. (again +1 moon here. Just to stop them from hitting us with mutavault)

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By: John https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121958 Thu, 27 Aug 2015 01:01:22 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121958 I don’t know if your testing has shown that grixis control is a favorable matchup for you, but I believe the general consensus is that the twin matchup is in grixis control’s favor, with a win rate of 59%

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By: cubsfan13444 https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121957 Wed, 26 Aug 2015 23:40:05 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121957 In reply to Curtis.

DTT was released less than a year ago, by right before do you mean the release of BNG?

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By: Lucas https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121956 Wed, 26 Aug 2015 23:32:13 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121956 Nice article, though I tend to agree with the others on the Remand thing.

A bit more of an obscure question, but how does UR Twin deal with Utron? Seems like a very rough match-up. Outside of getting lucky and hoping they don’t have an answer to the combo (of which they have many), or playing as aggressive as possible (i.e bolt snap bolt), it doesn’t seem very favorable to us at all.

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By: Curtis https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121955 Wed, 26 Aug 2015 22:52:18 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121955 I agree that taking out Remands against almost any blue deck is crazy. Maybe Delver variants, but that’s only a maybe.

Experience: 1.5 years with various iterations of Twin, starting just before the Dig Through Time era.

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By: Boogelawoof https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121954 Wed, 26 Aug 2015 22:44:06 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121954 In reply to Phobos.

I’m not sure how that is. Why would you want a remand rotting in your hand when you could have threats?

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By: Phobos https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121953 Wed, 26 Aug 2015 21:18:41 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121953 Taking out remand against control mirror is just crazy

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121952 Wed, 26 Aug 2015 19:21:33 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121952 In reply to Bones.

We’ll keep trying to roll out primers on a regular basis, and Amulet Bloom will be coming before too long.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/08/primers-ur-twin/#comment-2121951 Wed, 26 Aug 2015 19:21:00 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4173#comment-2121951 In reply to Anonymous.

Just checking: did the article make you feel this way because it gave you all these cool new tips you hadn’t thought of before? Or because it gave bad advice? If the latter, definitely let us know what you didn’t agree with and thought could have used improvement.

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