Comments on: BFZ Decklists and Set Review! https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Sat, 26 Sep 2015 14:47:58 +0000 hourly 1 By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122275 Sat, 26 Sep 2015 14:47:58 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122275 In reply to Matt Morgan.

It’s possible that Remand isn’t where we want to be, and we’d rather just be casting Collected Company. The one issue with that is we’d only have about 20 hits (12 spells, 21 land, 7 mana dorks we don’t want to see) but with a second Gavony Township it could be a strong plan against removal. Possibly we want the Remands in the board and the Company maindeck.

It’s interesting that Company works great alongside Remand (as we can’t really hold up mana for anything else besides Company, which telegraphs our play) but the list can’t afford both without looking drastically different.

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122274 Sat, 26 Sep 2015 14:42:23 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122274 In reply to Roland F. Rivera Santiago.

My interest in Gideon is based on his perceived power as a stand-alone threat. In the article I talk about his power as a “strong, army in a can type threat that can win the game on his own”. I am aware that Sorin’s primary use is not to make tokens and you’d much rather be pumping a board. I like that Gideon can do that if that is what we need, but he can make tokens or just start hitting if the situation calls for that. In exchange for lifelink, we gain versatility. It’s worth testing, at least. Who knows whether we might want to move back to Sorin in the future? It’s worth exploring.

I like that Allies puts the opponent in the squeeze by discouraging blocking and racing thanks to lifelink and sorcery speed effects (the ally etb bonuses). If Allies is better against midrange and control, then it’s probably a worse version of Merfolk (as I believe Merfolk has to be better against blue-based control than Allies). Lifelink seems excellent and Merfolk seems to be the same deck against Burn but without lifelink. (for the most part)

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122273 Sat, 26 Sep 2015 14:36:24 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122273 In reply to Darcy Hartwick.

I’ve seen a few lists with Lotus Cobra, if I had that amount of mana generation I would definitely be interested in playing a few more expensive cards like Thragtusk, etc. I think Gavony Township is probably best in my list, as I’m very tempo-oriented and have the Steppe Lynx’s that would love some counters. Other lists that aren’t playing Lynx would probably be more interested in Rogue’s Passage/Kessig Wolf Run. We’ll just have to test them out and see!

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By: Matt Morgan https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122272 Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:57:28 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122272 In reply to Matt Morgan.

Never mind, I had a brain fart on Steppe Lynx. It does seem pretty insane if you have one around to go nuts with.

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By: Matt Morgan https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122271 Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:54:23 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122271 That Knight of the Reliquary/Retreat to Coralhelm looks crazy fun to play. I almost like Collected Company more than Remand though. It just doesn’t really fit, but I always prefer to be on the beatdown plan than playing safe. I’m not super sold on Steppe Lynx for the list either, but for a first glance into a new deck I really enjoy it. I have always had a desire to play a broken Knight of the Reliquary deck…

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By: Lyracian https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122270 Fri, 25 Sep 2015 12:15:53 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122270 The Knight of Coralhelm deck looks fun; Lynx seems a good edition giving you two creatures that can attack for lethal. I would watch a video of you playing the deck.

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By: Tanner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122269 Fri, 25 Sep 2015 05:30:20 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122269 In reply to Trevor Holmes.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/05-08-15-blood-magic/
This is where I’m at

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By: SageOfKeralKeep https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122268 Fri, 25 Sep 2015 03:00:35 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122268 Thanks Trevor, finally a voice of reason can be heard:

” The long winded point I’m trying to make is: we’ve been spoiled, and we are blessed.”

Modern IS amazing at the moment. Instead of whinging, players should be applauding while wizards takes a bow.

They have essentially set out what they proposed to do: create a non-rotating format without the card availability issues of legacy. The metagame is more wide open than in the immediate aftermath of the pod/cruise/dig banning 8 months ago. They’ve nurtured a format with relatively powerful interactions that reward deck and metagame knowledge.

This cannot occur if power creep for non-rotating formats is demanded every set.

There will always be people complaining that modern is too expensive, too deck-choice dependent or not powerful enough. I wish those people would either move to legacy, standard or pauper, because the vocal minority seem to rule reddit.

Even if not a single card from BFZ appears in a modern tournament, the modern metagame is still evolving currently from the vast changes from the last 4 sets. The meta isnt anywhere near figured out.

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By: Will Krueger https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122267 Thu, 24 Sep 2015 23:12:46 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122267 In reply to Anonymous.

Forgot to add my name. This is me

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122266 Thu, 24 Sep 2015 23:12:12 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122266 In reply to Nickolay Krumov.

Beg to differ. Gideon is going to be an all star. 5/5 for four that can pump out dudes is what this deck needs. It even helps in the matchups where we need to apply a clock (Literally any tron deck or the UW control decks that are showing up). I agree Sorin needs to be in here somewhere but 2 copies should suffice. Liliana is also a house against any deck looking to grind. I’m questioning if you even play tokens.. If you do I’m sensing a bit of “I don’t want to buy Lilis” fever.

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By: Will Krueger https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122265 Thu, 24 Sep 2015 23:06:29 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122265 In reply to Trevor Holmes.

The list looks basically like my list. I really hate zealous persecution after this weekend though, it was just lightning strike to players so much. Maybe kills a snapcaster. It’d be better if people were playing abzan instead of jund obviously. The only other thing is that you’re not running Sorin, solemn visitor who just wins games. Other than that it looks sweet, I’m super pumped for Gideon!

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By: Wayne Lloyd https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122264 Thu, 24 Sep 2015 22:18:07 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122264 Honestly, I’ve mostly been interested in giving a one of slot to either Void Winnower or new Ulamog in Mono Blue Tron, maybe even try Ugin’s Sanctum somewhere in there.

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By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122263 Thu, 24 Sep 2015 21:11:00 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122263 Nice article, and I love your take on the Coralhelm Bant deck. I had completely forgotten about Steppe Lynx, but it fits the deck like a glove. Have you considered Collected Company as a more beatdown-oriented backup plan? All of your creatures are CMC 3 or less, after all.

I think that Gideon, Ally of Zendikar has potential in BW Tokens, but I don’t think it’s going to be at the expense of Sorin, Solemn Visitor. The reason why is because Sorin’s main job in the deck is not to pump out 2/2 fliers, it’s to give mass pump and especially lifelink to a deck that has a lousy Burn matchup (due to its lack of speed out of the gate) to begin with, and frequently makes it worse by running Bitterblossom, fetches, shocks, and the occasional Dismember. I’d cut Elspeth much sooner than I would Sorin, and I’m honestly a bit meh on Liliana (her +1 is a bit of a non-bo at times). You know how Lantern Scout looks good? Imagine one that you can repeat every turn without needing additional cards – that’s Sorin.

Regarding the comment on Allies… You think it matches up well against Burn and Merfolk? I brew Allies, and I actually see the deck as rather weak to both. Merfolk is going to bounce/Dismember your guys early and often (especially the ones that collect +1/+1 counters, since those are the most painful ones to lose) and then you have to race them – a race you are ill-equipped to win, especially post-board (if you don’t get 2+ activations of a Kabira Evangel in a game, you’re probably doomed). Lantern Scout helps out a bunch against Burn thanks to having a decent body and mass lifelink, but you still have to get around Atarka’s Command or Skullcrack, and that can be a 50/50 proposition. Moreover, a deck that’s dependent on getting creatures into play repeatedly is not going to like seeing an Eidolon of the Great Revel (and Vial decks don’t like seeing Destructive Revelry). Allies figure to be an explosive-but-inconsistent aggro deck, which usually manifests itself as being a bit slow, and against the fast, redundant, and consistent aggro decks of this format, that is death.

As Allies, I like my chances against midrange and control more than I do aggro – Allies has quite a few tricks to win grindy games (Vial, Company, Lantern Scout, Ally Encampment), and your creatures will scale with theirs (if not larger), unless they deal with them. They also Merfolk’s penchant to win 1-on-1 heavy games by simply having more threats than they do removal.

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By: Darcy Hartwick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122262 Thu, 24 Sep 2015 20:34:48 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122262 Agree in general – I didnt want BFZ to shake modern upside down since that’s basically what khans block did, I just wanted love for goblins, vampires, and allies to bump them into tier 2 territory (goblins may already be there).

Another card I’ve seen thrown around in KOTR lists is Rogue’s Passage. It’s brutally expensive but it’ll get the knight through on the lethal turn while letting you keep a land back for sejiri steppe (crack fetch, landfall untapping knight mid combat, sac land fetch steppe). I’m personally going to look at lotus cobra and swords alongside geist/kotr/retreat/hierarch, cobras and birds make wolf run easier to run while also giving you a mana sink. I think gavony is probably wrong here since it does not help your kotr punch through and if you steppe to punch through you may get blown out by abrupt decay etc. I also like apostle’s blessing in this deck as a way to punch kotr/geist/sworded dork through blockers and protect kotr from removal like decay.

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By: Nickolay Krumov https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122261 Thu, 24 Sep 2015 20:32:50 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122261 Gideon is far far worse than Solemn Visitor in the tokens deck. Which normally shouldn’t even be playing Liliana, but I assume you’re looking at Shahar’s Worlds list (or mtgo decks that were looking at it) without taking any sort of context under consideration. But regardless, Gideon is rather… crap. Sorin isn’t actually there to be -2ed, but even then he is better, because his dude has evasion. The assumption that the token-producing walkers are played for this ability shows a big misunderstanding of both the deck and the general approach to the strategy.

So… I guess what I’m trying to say is to keep to what you’re good at and don’t make yourself look silly only for the sake of discussing playability.

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122260 Thu, 24 Sep 2015 19:44:00 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122260 In reply to Will Krueger.

Should have been a Thoughtseize, fixed 🙂 Thoughts on the list? Board is definitely shaky

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By: Will Krueger https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122259 Thu, 24 Sep 2015 17:52:53 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122259 In reply to Will Krueger.

I don’t know how to edit but it seems you’re running 5 inquisition of kozileks in your 75 as well.

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By: Will Krueger https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122258 Thu, 24 Sep 2015 17:39:09 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122258 I was mentioned! Thanks Trevor =)

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122257 Thu, 24 Sep 2015 16:59:02 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122257 In reply to Tanner.

Good point, I’ve seen that deck pop up here and there (normally in Sam Black’s articles) and kind of forgot about it. Access to a second Blood Artist and the third Doomed Traveler seems to be what that deck is looking for (though I’ve always found that deck to be pretty underwhelming). If you end up working on the deck let me know what you find out!

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By: Tanner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/09/bfz-decklists-and-set-review/#comment-2122256 Thu, 24 Sep 2015 16:41:39 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4764#comment-2122256 Zulaport Cutthroat and Blisterpod seem like natural fits in the Modern Return to the Ranks decks that have been flying under the radar

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