Comments on: Some Bob With Your Bugs: Confidant in Delver https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Tue, 06 Oct 2015 18:37:26 +0000 hourly 1 By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122364 Tue, 06 Oct 2015 18:37:26 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122364 In reply to Darcy Hartwick.

Goyf is really the main reason to run Bauble here, since BUG can’t play Swiftspear. The thing about its interaction with Bob is that, to pull that off, you need to have:

1) a Bob out (you’re already winning)
2) a Bauble on top of your deck

If you reveal a land and not a Bauble, you get the same benefit. If you reveal a nonland, nonbauble card, you lose one life, or two at most. So running the Bauble really didn’t do that much. The times it will be relevant with Bob are scarce for this reason.

Also, I don’t think Bauble provides “dig.” Sure, you can scry with a fetchland, but again, that’s a dream scenario – you have to have a Bauble, not want to pop it for a card early, have a fetchland, AND have a Bob if you want to set up your top card. For what? So you don’t lose one life on your next upkeep? I’ve come to realize by playing a lot with Sleight of Hand that the “dig” you get off two cards is negligible enough to make it unplayable in most decks, even decks in which it does a ton of work on paper (iGrow). If Sleight hardly digs, Bauble really hardly digs.

Making space isn’t trivial, since we need to maintain 22 blue cards for Disrupting Shoal. If we cut “utility spells” from the BUG list, the only real options are Inquisition of Kozilek, Pack Rat, Abrupt Decay, and a land, I guess. (The other slots aren’t options; they’re Goyf, Confidant, and blue cards.) I just think the possible cuts are better in the deck than Bauble. With such an all-in bomb-two-drop plan, I wouldn’t want to sacrifice, respectively, the cheapest protection we have for the two drops, one of the two drops in question, or the most versatile spell this side of Lightning Bolt and one of the reasons we can go BUG in the first place. I’m fine with cutting a land if we play 4 Bauble, but it’s the other 3 Baubles that are hard to make room for.

I know 5/6 Goyf is the bee’s knees. I wrote about it in my Banana Phones article, which one user even sleeved up and won a PPTQ with (check the comments; link below). The card is sweet in green Delver decks, but probably not in this one.
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=banana%20phone%20modernnexus

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By: Darcy Hartwick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122363 Tue, 06 Oct 2015 14:26:07 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122363 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

5/6 goyf eats rhinos tasigurs and anglers and survives dismember. It also shortens your clock by a turn in the abstract 20 life scenario. That extra point of P/T is not to be underestimated.

No synergy with bob? Come on – 0 dmg flips off of bob are the dream, and 2 life can be the difference between winning or losing vs aggro/burn decks. You can say its not enough, but saying a 0 mana flip that can also let you know and alter your top card before bob reveal is “notsynergy” is ridiculous.

Finding space is trivial, you cut 1 copy each of various utility spells since you’ve gained dig and will hit those spells more often anyways.

Is all of that enough to make up for not being a shoal-able card and not being able to leverage prowess or delve? I don’t know. Jund hasn’t been interested in bauble despite running bob and goyf (and even a singleton tasigur) so maybe its been tested and found wanting – but to me it looks like it has potential.

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By: Darcy Hartwick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122362 Mon, 05 Oct 2015 15:50:12 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122362 In reply to Anonymous.

well there aren’t many writers so that makes him what.. worse than sheridan and trevor? lol.

I’m one of the poor schmucks who bought in on $20 days undoings based on Jordan’s analysis and I still don’t think his writing is bad. He needs to knock one out of the park to make up for the undoing debacle, but at least he’s trying unusual stuff like simic charm. I don’t need to read an article that tells me to cast thoughtseize into tarmogoyf.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122361 Mon, 05 Oct 2015 08:56:45 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122361 In reply to mongoliloli.

Not sure what you mean. Stuck on red, you mean you can’t get to black mana? That hasn’t been an issue for me, but it still sounds like a problem you could remedy quickly by swapping some fetches if you run into it often.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122360 Mon, 05 Oct 2015 08:55:40 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122360 In reply to Chris.

I definitely do, but I’d advise anyone to play some games with a deck before buying into it if they have a limited budget and lack Modern staples. It’s important to enjoy what you sleeve up!

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By: Chris https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122359 Mon, 05 Oct 2015 08:06:55 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122359 Have you done any more testing since this article went up?

Really like the look of it but would have to invest in quite a few cards so want to make sure you think it’s competitive 😉

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By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122358 Mon, 05 Oct 2015 06:01:24 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122358 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

Angler, Tasigur, Become Immense, Scapeshift, Hive Mind, Primeval Titan, Cryptic Commands, Olivia, Huntmaster, Thrun (which we can do nothing about otherwise), that sort of thing. It’s not a huge edge, but it’s an edge.

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By: mongoliloli https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122357 Sun, 04 Oct 2015 18:03:33 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122357 have you ever been stuck on red in the grixis deck? i’ve played a few games with it and have had trouble casting all of my spells on time sometimes. maybe i just have to do a bit more testing but

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122356 Sun, 04 Oct 2015 05:29:53 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122356 In reply to dkd83.

That’s great news, care to enlighten us a bit on your testing specifics?

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By: dkd83 https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122355 Sun, 04 Oct 2015 01:16:05 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122355 In reply to Randy Mark.

I’ve played +/- 10 matches with the Grixis Grow list and like it very much. I believe +1 Vapor Snag, -1 Terminate will prove beneficial. Makes me want to splash Mr. Robert into Monkey Grow!

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122354 Sat, 03 Oct 2015 23:15:19 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122354 In reply to Vladimir Bouriakov.

I don’t usually think it’s worth it to play very bad cards for the purpose of making other bad cards good, unless doing so attacks a specific part of the metagame. In Modern, Burn has a sizable enough share to make these strategies even worse. The Suicide Delver lists aren’t tempo decks at all, they’re bad aggro decks. I tend to think most other linear aggro decks, like Burn, Zoo, and Bogles, are better-rounded and occupy unique spots in Modern, whereas Suicide Delver occupies the same space as some other aggro decks without properly addressing the problems those decks have. But you’re welcome to post a list if you want more comments than that.

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By: Randy Mark https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122353 Sat, 03 Oct 2015 22:46:26 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122353 An amazing testimony on a spell caster who brought my wife back to me Testimony on a spell caster who brought my wife back to me. My name is Randy Mark,i live in Italy,and I’m happily married to a lovely and caring wife,with three kids.A very big problem occurred in my family five months ago,between me and my wife.so terrible that she took the case to court for a divorce.she said that she never wanted to stay with me again that she didn’t love me anymore. she packed out of my house and made me and my children passed through several pains. I tried all my possible best to get her back, after much begging, and she confirmed it that she has made her decision never to see me again. one evening,i met a friend who asked of my wife. i explained every thing to him, he told me the only way i can get my wife back is to visit a spell caster because it has really worked for him too. i never believed in spell but i had no option than to follow his advice. Then he gave me the email address of the spell caster whom he visited.{drehohotemple@gmail.com} the next morning i sent a mail to the address and the spell caster assured me that i will get my wife back in three days.What an amazing statement!! I never believed, he spoke with me and told me all i need to do which i did. on the second morning, surprisingly my wife who didn’t call me for the past five months gave me a call to inform me she is coming back that was how she came back same day with lots of love and joy and she apologized for her mistakes pains she caused me and my children. Then from that day our relationship is now stronger than ever before,by the help of a spell caster.i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same website {drehohotemple@gmail.com},if you are in any condition like this,or you have any problem related to “bringing your ex back or getting promotion in your office,talk and obey or having any kind of sickness such as cancer, HIV AIDS, or any kind of deases Contact him today on this Email: drehohotemple@gmail.com or cell number +2348128037847

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By: Anonymous https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122352 Sat, 03 Oct 2015 16:19:09 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122352 Worst writer on this site.

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By: Vladimir Bouriakov https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122351 Sat, 03 Oct 2015 15:46:16 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122351 Great article! Regarding black in tempo, I would appreciate it if you could attempt suicide delver, and share your thoughts. Death’s shadow, bob, dismember, vendetta…

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122350 Sat, 03 Oct 2015 14:53:48 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122350 In reply to Darcy Hartwick.

Bauble doesn’t do enough in that deck. It hardly synergizes with Bob, since what would we cut for it? A land and three spells probably, and all our spells cost 1 or 2 already so we don’t save much life. 5/6 Goyf is also unnecessary with all the Simic Charms; we can pump him past fatties anyway. And Bauble isn’t great with Snapcaster Mage. I think all the creatures need to benefit greatly from the card for Bauble to earn its inclusion in grow decks, since getting the cantrip a turn late is a real issue.

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By: Darcy Hartwick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122349 Sat, 03 Oct 2015 13:21:11 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122349 Sultai deck needs 4 mishra’s baubles if possible – doesn’t help with shoal unfortunately, but it grows goyf, doesn’t mathetmatically hurt your delver flips, and has decent synergy with bob (flips for 0, can help you dodge painful flips by peeking and stacking triggers)

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122348 Fri, 02 Oct 2015 21:31:18 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122348 In reply to KickHopper.

While I can’t imagine the BUG deck ever losing to Twin, most Delver decks beat up on Twin anyway.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122347 Fri, 02 Oct 2015 21:29:59 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122347 In reply to Roland F. Rivera Santiago.

I think it does. But the real question is what do you want to hit with Thoughtseize that you can’t hit with IoK?

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By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122346 Fri, 02 Oct 2015 21:10:42 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122346 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

So you’ve already tested it and found it wanting – got it. In that case, would Thoughtseize merit consideration over IoK? I’m debating whether the life loss that is intrinsic to the deck makes its cost prohibitive.

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By: KickHopper https://www.quietspeculation.com/2015/10/some-bob-with-your-bugs-confidant-in-delver/#comment-2122345 Fri, 02 Oct 2015 19:49:04 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=4850#comment-2122345 The BUG build seems like a good option if Twin ever gets a bonkers metagame share again. I’ll file that one away in my brain for later.

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