Comments on: Forget-Me-Knots: Eldrazi in an Eyeless World https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Sat, 04 Jun 2016 02:32:36 +0000 hourly 1 By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125690 Sat, 04 Jun 2016 02:32:36 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125690 In reply to Zach Cramer.

I started with Grove and then transitioned to Karplusan Forest. Giving opponents life was more relevant than taking damage with Bolts and Reality Smashers.

]]>
By: Zach Cramer https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125689 Thu, 02 Jun 2016 17:40:56 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125689 It’s probably 100% incorrect to not play Grove of the Burnwillows in a GR Eldrazi deck. I’d definitely want to add those to the Naya and GR decks.

]]>
By: Marco Liguori https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125688 Mon, 30 May 2016 20:24:21 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125688 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

Thank you for the reply Jordan.

So, yeah, it feels a little Eldrazi Eye “nuked” version.

The only thing that separates this deck from the colour builds is Chalice for 1.

It wrecks so many decks that it feels like a safety valve on the deck, to not care about Path, Bolt, Hierarch, Serum Visions, Infect, Burn, etc,etc.

It is by far the only card that makes me want to play this instead of Bant, which is my option number 1 for my country´s nationals.

I will keep testing, but right now, i feel this is better to beat Affinity, Infect, Burn, RG Tron and Jeskai, which are the main decks of my area.

Bant lacks the reach of Chalice, so Affinity and Infect become somewhat of a problem G1, that´s where the 3 color SB comes in.

If i run this and win(or at least win most rounds) the nationals, i will totally encourage the Eldrazi players out there to play this!

It´s so nice to keep playing Thought-Knot Seer again!

]]>
By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125687 Mon, 30 May 2016 19:58:11 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125687 In reply to Marco Liguori.

I like your suggest changes a lot. When I first started messing around with Eldrazi Chalice builds, which was around the time OGW was spoiled, I went to Thorn first. I quickly cut it because it doesn’t do much in Modern, as you’ve found out yourself. I also have experimented with Vesuva and other options for colorless lands since the Eye ban and been largely unimpressed, so I’ve usually opted to splash colors for better cards than Eldrazi Mimic instead of running sub-par colorless lands and playing a “nuked” Eye deck from last Modern season. But I do think there’s a place of Colorless Eldrazi Stompy in the current Modern. My favorite builds I’ve been working on have returned to black, running four Urborgs main and a set of Lilianas. Guide + Urborg gives you the dreaded turn two Liliana that got Deathrite Shaman banned! Also, I wouldn’t leave home without a set of Dismembers in this deck.

Good luck!

]]>
By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125686 Mon, 30 May 2016 17:13:39 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125686 In reply to ben coley.

Everyone has their pet cards. Luckily for me, Tarmogoyf is a card you don’t need to try very hard to make work in Modern, since he’s so high above the curve for a two-mana creature. Now, if I had an obsession with Training Grounds…

]]>
By: Marco Liguori https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125685 Mon, 30 May 2016 16:41:49 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125685 Hi Jordan,

I want to ask you some questions regarding Eldrazi builds.

I´ve been toying with a Colorless Eldrazi build i found on mtggoldfish.

The deck has been very good to my surprise, it has explosiveness, and it locks the opponent out of the game with classic Colorless tools, like Chalice.

Here´s the list for context purposes: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/417500#paper

I have won most of my matches against; Infect, Burn, Affinity and some control decks like Jeskai Nahiri.

The only card that may be not worth it is Thorn of Amethyst, which is good in Legacy because Ancient Tomb?).

My modification if i were to play in a tournament tomorrow would be:

-4 Thorn, -2 Warping Wail, .1 Vesuva, -2 Phyrexian Metamorph? (im not sold on this one yet)
+ 4 Dismember, + 2 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Urborg, + 2 Spellskite

I would appreciate some feedback, at least what you think of the list, maybe you like it, i can say it´s powerful if played tightly.

Thanks!!

]]>
By: ben coley https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125684 Sun, 29 May 2016 15:27:42 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125684 As much as I may feel a bit iffy about some specific individual brews you make, I find your dedication to trying “the permutations” quite appealing, and I definitely respect having a pet set of cards that you try to make work, because hey guess what! Sooner or later it’ll work brilliantly. It’s only a matter of time.

So jamming Goyf into everything (for example) might be a shaky proposition when taken individually as a single brew, but over time it could really pave the way for some powerful and unexpected brews.

Likewise, cards such as dark confidant deserve to see more play and it’s only a matter of running the permutations in order to discover something unique and powerful, despite having to work through a pile of unsuccessful decks beforehand.

Cheers for the article, it was fun.

]]>
By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125683 Fri, 27 May 2016 22:33:49 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125683 In reply to Jacob Kellogg.

It’s actually not in the Bolt/Path list. I don’t like Traverse unless we can turn it on really fast, like in TarmoDrazi.

]]>
By: Jacob Kellogg https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125682 Fri, 27 May 2016 20:49:32 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125682 In reply to Jacob Kellogg.

D’oh! Ignore my above post, I somehow missed that Traverse was already in the list. /facepalm

]]>
By: Jacob Kellogg https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125681 Fri, 27 May 2016 20:22:10 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125681 Any thought to replacing Oath of Nissa with Traverse the Ulvenwald? Even without Delirium, it can go find you that Wastes to make sure you can cast your Eldrazi on time. A few turns in, you’re very likely to have a land (from fetching), a creature (they die), an instant (Bolt/Path), and a sorcery (Stirrings/Traverse). If you lose a Nahiri, then Delirium is all but guaranteed. And at that point, Traverse becomes really strong (especially post-board, when you’ve got those singletons like Spellskite and Reclamation Sage).

]]>
By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125680 Fri, 27 May 2016 20:09:32 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125680 In reply to Kevork Agh.

I think Nahiri is probably better in the Eldrazi deck than anything blue can offer, including Stubborn Denial. But go for it and report back!

]]>
By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125679 Fri, 27 May 2016 20:08:54 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125679 In reply to Ian Robertson.

I really love Tarmogoyf in any interactive shell with red and green. Bolting a creature and following up with Tarmogoyf is incredibly powerful in Modern. So is fetching for a land, cantripping, and casting a Bolt-proof Goyf on turn two. That play alone allows archetypes like Temur Delver and (formerly) Temur Twin to reliably “get under” counterspell walls, or to start pressuring opponents early while interacting with them. Goyf also gets really pretty large here thanks to Nahiri and Oath of Nissa.

So far, shuffling the ‘Yard with Emrakul and shrinking Goyfs has not been problematic for me. Nahiri doesn’t even force us to loot when she +2s, and we can choose to discard something other than Emrakul if we really want to keep our Goyfs huge. I have shrunk them a bunch of times in testing, but that’s because I wanted to shuffle Emrakul into the deck to ultimate with her next turn. At that point, it doesn’t matter if Tarmogoyf can be Bolted. (This deck interacts so much that he’s unlikely to be Boltable just because of our opponent’s Graveyard, but either way, opponents will want to throw Bolt at Nahiri if we’re shrinking Goyfs to tick her up.)

I don’t like Ooze here because it can be killed the turn it comes down. You’re right that we want to be casting Eldrazi later in the game (turns 3+). That means we don’t really want to lay Ooze and have to hold up a bunch of green mana. Let’s just play Reality Smasher! But on turn two, Reality Smasher isn’t an option. Tarmogoyf even outgrows Smasher in this deck and is an “Eldrazi” himself in that he’s way larger than the other creatures played in Modern.

I’ve seen the Bant lists and think Tribe Elder is actually pretty sweet in these decks. He allows for turn three Nahiris or Thought-Knots and gets around removal. I just prefer Goyf right now because of its “synergy” with Nahiri – I think the ‘walker is best when we have great threats on the board protecting her.

As for the manabase, I actually do play a Wastes, for the exact reason you mentioned (scroll up!). So far, the cantrips have helped me get to my colors enough. But we do have painlands as an option if we start finding the manabase too inconsistent.

]]>
By: Zach Stackhouse https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125678 Fri, 27 May 2016 20:06:13 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125678 I’m just glad Eldrazi decks are viable and relatively cheap. As a newcomer, I literally am waiting for the last few cards to finish blue tron, but an Eldrazi deck could definitely become item #2 to start investment, especially with the Legacy overlap.

]]>
By: Ian Robertson https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125677 Fri, 27 May 2016 17:56:33 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125677 Sorry, but one other comment. The mana base in the nahiri list is questionable. You have a lot of duals and not enough trilands. Maybe Oath and Ancient Stirrings are enough to overcome the lack of colorless sources, but I would think at least some Battlefield Forges/Brushlands/Karpulsan Forests would be necessary for fixing. A timely Ghost Quarter could really set you back, even running a Wastes could go a long way. As it stands, five colorless sources does not seem like enough.

]]>
By: Ian Robertson https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125676 Fri, 27 May 2016 17:43:50 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125676 I have to wonder if Tarmagoyf is even necessary in the Nahiri list. You have 16 one mana spells already, 8 of which are fixing your mana/finding a threat. In the games you can cast it on curve, its likely to be a little smaller then what it could be in GBx. Turns three and later you are going to want to be casting Eldrazi which will end the game faster. Tarmagoyf also leaves you open to Abrupt Decay, and if its your only threat its going to be a real feel bad (Oath of Nissa and Matter Reshaper leave your opponent down a card). Pitching Emrakul and Tarmogoyf are also a really big nombo.

The question is what can replace it? Some bant lists have run Sakura-Tribe elder for ramp, fixing and a fog. Qasali Pridemage would be interesting in that its an effective beater without needing graveyard interaction and could help your game one against Affinity and in conjunction with bolt might make game 1 winnable.

Scavenging Ooze, again, provides a hatebear that also gains life and is going to be better late game then a goyf as it will likely be able to eat multiple creatures over a turn or two. Lightning Helix also helps a lot against hyper aggro decks game 1 (Infect especially as they can largely go over a goyf). Spellskite also helps a lot with these matchups.

Just some thoughts, I look forward to hearing about how testing goes.

]]>
By: Kevork Agh https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125675 Fri, 27 May 2016 17:21:08 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125675 Nice write up. Im more interested in the RG variants, myself. Maybe even splashing blue, but that might make the mana too inconsistent.

]]>
By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125674 Fri, 27 May 2016 17:08:14 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125674 In reply to Roland F. Rivera Santiago.

Good call, Drowner is pretty sweet! As for Eldrazi’s supposed aggro weakness, Eldrazi Harbinger can also run Lightning Helix if that problem persists, though casting it might be a hassle. Then there’s… Ajani Vengeant?!

Mana dorks are the next thing I’m testing. Hierarch into Thought-Knot is super good and can definitely exist outside of Bant Aggro variants. In fact, when I started brewing Eldrazi Hatebear lists, I found the GW version to be stronger than BW for that reason (more info about that deck in the article, linked above).

As for clearing out blockers, I haven’t found it to be too difficult with eight great removal spells AND four Nahiris. Nahiri and Path take care of bigger threats like Tarmogoyf really well, but fields of 1/1s can get in the way. I think running a bunch of Kozilek’s Return in the side is better to address that issue than running Displacer.

]]>
By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/05/forget-knots-eldrazi-eyeless-world/#comment-2125673 Fri, 27 May 2016 16:47:19 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=9747#comment-2125673 Drowner of Hope wants a word regarding your “best Eldrazi” comments. 😛

In all seriousness, though, Naya Harbinger Eldrazi looks like it could be a contender. It’s not as soft to fast aggro as RG Eldrazi can be (Bolts + Paths + blockers help sew that weakness shut nicely), and it has a higher top-end game than Bant Eldrazi (albeit not quite as smooth an early game). Are mana dorks of any kind worth considering here to get you off the ground faster and provide fixing? Should Eldrazi Displacer be considered in the sideboard as a way to clear out blockers?

]]>