Comments on: Ancestral Vision Two Months Out https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/ancestral-vision-two-months/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Tue, 14 Jun 2016 09:41:57 +0000 hourly 1 By: Marcus Neo https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/ancestral-vision-two-months/#comment-2125797 Tue, 14 Jun 2016 09:41:57 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10024#comment-2125797 In reply to Ryan Overturf.

I don’t think tapping 4 lands on their end step is horrific when the game has gone long and both players on 8 mana or more. Likely than not, we’re both desperately trying to draw fuel; maybe we need to find the ghost quarter or be beaten to death by a colo. Or a snap to close out the game. Perhaps we’ve experienced different draw-outs, but I typically die because eventually we just “skip” draw steps. (after all, drawing dead fetches is as good as a skipped draw), while they happily discard excess fetches to find more gas.

On the other hand, I can also see the benefit of naming human with cavern and not having to worry about cryptic command catching a late snap or tas.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/ancestral-vision-two-months/#comment-2125796 Tue, 14 Jun 2016 02:27:19 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10024#comment-2125796 In reply to Marcus Neo.

I’ve had Lighthouse as a consideration, but I don’t think it’s as good as any of the three lands I named. Tapping four lands is a serious cost for minor utility. Many games are won and lost over Snap/Bolt wars, and you really can’t mess around with activating it. Drawing dead fetches can definitely suck, though it’s a pretty minor thing.

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By: Marcus Neo https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/ancestral-vision-two-months/#comment-2125795 Tue, 14 Jun 2016 01:22:29 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10024#comment-2125795 Hey Ryan, what do you think of a Desolate Lighthouse in the SB? Up against Jeskai, the squalls go in, the delvers come out, but one thing I’ve always found that happens in their draw go games is that they not only have the manlands against us, they get to filter their draws too, while we sometimes draw fetches with no targets left. That difference in card quality in the endgame can make all the difference.

I think ghost quarters are an excellent idea. I never want terminates until colonnade goes live, which is an awkward position to be in.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/ancestral-vision-two-months/#comment-2125794 Mon, 13 Jun 2016 21:44:07 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10024#comment-2125794 In reply to Darcy Hartwick.

Temur Delver is one of the Proactive Vision decks that I experimented with briefly. I was also hopeful, though I haven’t been able to find it.

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By: Darcy Hartwick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/ancestral-vision-two-months/#comment-2125793 Mon, 13 Jun 2016 21:20:40 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10024#comment-2125793 It’s been really frustrating trying to find a good way to use ancestral vision. The goblin dark dwellers thing didn’t really pan out and there aren’t many ways to profitably discard it when it’s topdecked at a bad time. It also competes with serum visions, spell snares and discard for turn one play in a lot of the decks it looks decent in. And finally sometimes it resolves and you just draw 2 lands and a bolt after all that waiting.

The two lists you posted look like good fits because they address the cards drawbacks, but man I really wanted a Temur or sultai midrange deck to rise up with vision 🙁

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/ancestral-vision-two-months/#comment-2125792 Mon, 13 Jun 2016 20:04:02 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10024#comment-2125792 In reply to Franco Piria.

Young Pyromancer just isn’t good in Modern anymore. Before Treasure Cruise it was played because there was no other option, and with Treasure Cruise it was great at further compounding the advantage that Treasure Cruise generated, though currently Tasigur and Gurmangler are just better cards. It’s too fragile, and in particular Lightning Bolt and Abrupt Decay make it unappealing.

I’ve had the second K Command and even additional sideboard copies at various points, though it’s just not especially good right now. You want one to make Thought Scour/Snapcaster excellent, though against basically all of the linear decks it’s too inefficient as a spell. Electrolyze is also way too inefficient, and I only like it when Lingering Souls is very prevalent in the format because that card so easily leaves you behind on cards and Electrolyze is one of few tools that lines up very well against Souls. Everything else that Electroylze is good against isn’t really a problem- it’s too inefficient against decks like Infect and Affinity for a deck this lean.

No offense, but I’m not going to write out several sideboard plans for a comment section, and sideboarding is something you feel out as you play the deck. I will offer you one piece of sideboarding advice, as it doesn’t seem intuitive, but you board Delver out against both Burn and URx control decks. It dies too easily, and your plan is either Tasigur or to Countersquall/Bolt them to death. Games against Burn are often very close, and the fact that Delver needs to flip to block favorably in a matchup where you would rather be blocking than attacking is bad, and Searing Blaze added on top of this fact makes Delver too much of a liability.

Against the UR control decks, you don’t want to have to counter every Electrolyze/Lightning Bolt, so Delver just dies too much and is a horrible topdeck, which is why he sucks there. The deck’s ability to win long games against them is greater than you might think.

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By: Franco Piria https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/ancestral-vision-two-months/#comment-2125791 Mon, 13 Jun 2016 18:52:21 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10024#comment-2125791 Hi Ryan, nice article! i have some questions about your Grixis Delver build:
-Why did you choose not to run Some Young Pyromancers? in what matchups do u think they shine and in which ones they dont?
Why are you playing just 1 Kolaghan’s Command and no Electrolyze? Same question: where do you think they shine and where do they suck?
What is your sideboard plan agains the diferent and most important matchups? im personally interested in the plan against Burn, Affinity, Company and URx control (UWR, Grixis, and UW control /UW tron too) just because they’r the most predominant at my location.
Thank you very much!

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By: Marco Liguori https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/ancestral-vision-two-months/#comment-2125790 Mon, 13 Jun 2016 17:42:31 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10024#comment-2125790 Well, to be fair with AV, there´s a common belief among Modern community that reactive strategies can make their way into Tier 1 category.

This is an incorrect line of thought when considering Control decks that are viable.

Jeskai became Tier 1(By representation of course) because it gained an “Oops i win” button in Nahiri/Emrakul.

That´s why Grixis is just a bad deck, a watered-down Jund if you will.

You certainly don´t have a proactive plan, and like you said, you just sit in your hand trying to respond everything. Modern certainly doesn´t have the tools to have this kind of decks. To be more clear, there´s no Force of Will.

Proactive decks rule Modern, period.

Also, regarding the Jace comments. I believe Jace is broken. Does that mean it wouldn´t help Modern? No.

The problem with Jace is that it doesn´t “combo” like Nahiri, but it´s just too damn consistent, and it is a win con on its own.

It definitely a card to watch out in the future.

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