Comments on: Early Tests with Eldritch Moon Emrakul https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/early-tests-eldritch-moon-emrakul/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Sat, 25 Jun 2016 16:07:29 +0000 hourly 1 By: Jimmy Bruno https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/early-tests-eldritch-moon-emrakul/#comment-2125865 Sat, 25 Jun 2016 16:07:29 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10144#comment-2125865 I’m happy to see that new Emmy doesn’t totally suck. I was hoping it was good since my first modern deck almost 2 years ago was Mono U Tron. My favorite turn-control story actually came from standard with Worst Fears against a UB Control. It turns out that stacking 3 Pearl Lake Ancient triggers into discarding 3 board wipes and a win condition is really good!

I’m a bit annoyed about the rules change with checking sideboards (it was my favorite lesser-known trick). Oh well, wizards does what wizards wants.

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By: Steven de Groot https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/early-tests-eldritch-moon-emrakul/#comment-2125864 Fri, 24 Jun 2016 18:02:57 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10144#comment-2125864 Forgive me if I’m not understanding, but I think there is an error in the EV for newrakul here. Since the mindslaver effect also gives the opponent an extra turn, does that not net the opponent an extra card from the extra draw step? I didn’t see that mentioned in the EV anywhere (although maybe I’m missing it), but that should reduce the EV of newrakul by 1 in all situations, making the comparison a bit closer.

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By: Jonathan Latour https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/early-tests-eldritch-moon-emrakul/#comment-2125863 Thu, 23 Jun 2016 11:04:57 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10144#comment-2125863 After reading your article i really wanted to try it out. Being an old U-tron player, the mindslaver effect looked appealing but my initial thought on the card was not soft…
I decided to try it out in a Through the breach/valakut shell and so far, both time i was able to cast her, it game me the game. here’s my list if anyone want to test it :

4x primeval titan
4x sakura tribe elder
1x Oldrakul
1x Newrakul
2x oracle of mul daya

4x through the breach
4x search for tomorrow
4x oath of nissa
3x lightning bolt
2x farseek
2x summoner’s pact
1x summoning trap (not sure if i use a 3rd summoner’s pact)
2x nahiri, the harbinger
1x anger of the gods

6x mountain
4x stomping ground
4x valakut
4x wooded foothills
3x forest
2x cinderglade
2x arid mesa
1x sacred foundry

I’m opened to suggestions to help make the deck better. With oath and the nahiri, i can drop Emmy’s cost to 7 at max and it isn’t rare that i have 8-9 mana on the field in the mid/late -game

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/early-tests-eldritch-moon-emrakul/#comment-2125862 Wed, 22 Jun 2016 22:45:52 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10144#comment-2125862 In reply to Roland F. Rivera Santiago.

I was also a bit skeptical about Emrakul when I first saw her, but the EV numbers were just very convincing. Can’t wait to see her in action more! As for Mono Blue Tron, I like the idea of bringing in 1-2 Coaxes into the main and rolling with Emrakul as a possible win condition. The Blue Tron graveyard is bigger than RG Tron’s, and the deck has TfK to add even more fuel. All of this could point to a more viable Blue Tron deck after EMN hits shelves.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/early-tests-eldritch-moon-emrakul/#comment-2125861 Wed, 22 Jun 2016 22:44:09 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10144#comment-2125861 In reply to Craig Cliburn.

It was a fun method! I can think of some ways to improve it in the future (for instance, players making different decisions knowing about Ulamog vs. Emrakul triggers), but I liked where it started.

With regard to the matchups, even if Emrakul is improving Ulamog’s rate in the GOOD matchups, that’s still a great datapoint. For instance, if Jund was 60/40 with Ulamog and 65/35 with Emrakul (without costing too many percentage points elsewhere), that’s a fine swap on the spot. It’s important to make sure Emrakul isn’t making good matchups worse, and that was the point of doing that particular mini-gauntlet. I’d expect those EV rates to basically hold steady in other matchups.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/early-tests-eldritch-moon-emrakul/#comment-2125860 Wed, 22 Jun 2016 22:39:23 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10144#comment-2125860 In reply to BsledgeW.

Good addition for players to know. Can’t wait until we get a judge call on camera for this sort of thing.

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By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/early-tests-eldritch-moon-emrakul/#comment-2125859 Wed, 22 Jun 2016 21:47:39 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10144#comment-2125859 I have to admit that my expectations regarding Emrakul’s performance were very low coming in, especially regarding casting it in a timely fashion, but your data looks quite convincing (and definitive, all sample-size caveats taken into consideration). I think this really makes an argument for a 1 Emrakul/1 Ulamog split going forward, which allows you to have your cake and eat it too. That also avoids the unlikely-but-possible scenario where you have both Ulamogs in your hand. I still think it also has potential in U-Tron, but the question is what finisher it replaces. That question is complicated by the fact that most U-Tron finishers are fetchable, whereas Emrakul wouldn’t be (other than the Eldrazi Wish card, which I guess could be a thing U-Tron could use). Thoughts?

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By: Craig Cliburn https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/early-tests-eldritch-moon-emrakul/#comment-2125858 Wed, 22 Jun 2016 21:44:33 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10144#comment-2125858 First off, great methodology! Comparing the cast triggers in real games (and playing them out twice) seems like a great way to use data driven analysis.

The problem that I have is gauntlet selection, Tron already wrecks Abzan CoCo and Jund and it isnt even close (baring them warping their SBs and even then …). I would have much rather seen you play against historically bad matchups like burn, scapeshift, or affinity (in addition to infect).

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By: BsledgeW https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/early-tests-eldritch-moon-emrakul/#comment-2125857 Wed, 22 Jun 2016 20:54:36 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10144#comment-2125857 In reply to Sheridan Lardner.

712.3. Only control of the player changes. All objects are controlled by their normal controllers. A player who’s being controlled during his or her turn is still the active player.

Also an incredibly relevant rule. Some might try to argue that you (emmy player) are controlling the Kommand. You are not.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/early-tests-eldritch-moon-emrakul/#comment-2125856 Wed, 22 Jun 2016 19:36:36 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10144#comment-2125856 In reply to Tim Estes.

Nope, and that’s a rule I didn’t know until now but one I expect all of Modern will learn after EMN is released.

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By: Tim Estes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/early-tests-eldritch-moon-emrakul/#comment-2125855 Wed, 22 Jun 2016 19:28:31 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10144#comment-2125855 In reply to justaguy.

So one cannot bolt his/her own planeswalkers?

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/early-tests-eldritch-moon-emrakul/#comment-2125854 Wed, 22 Jun 2016 19:03:22 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10144#comment-2125854 In reply to Jacob Kellogg.

Agree. That’s also something you might see in Jeskai, where you can easily see 4-5 card types in the yard in the late-game. I’d still bet on her in Tron before anything else, but Mardu or Jeskai could work too.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/early-tests-eldritch-moon-emrakul/#comment-2125853 Wed, 22 Jun 2016 19:02:12 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10144#comment-2125853 In reply to justaguy.

Good to know! I expect more people will become familiar with this rule in the future. It wouldn’t have affected the board state too much either way. Knowing this, I would have blocked and killed the Confidant (not the Goyf), +2’d the Lily to discard Command, and then Pulsed her with the open mana. I’m still very comfortable with that four-card swing.

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By: justaguy https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/early-tests-eldritch-moon-emrakul/#comment-2125852 Wed, 22 Jun 2016 17:59:27 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10144#comment-2125852 Quick one: “and then Kolaghan’s Commanded the two-loyalty Lily”

You cannot redirect damage from your own spells to Planeswalkers you control.

306.7. If noncombat damage would be dealt to a player by a source controlled by an opponent, that opponent may have that source deal that damage to a planeswalker the first player controls instead. This is a redirection effect (see rule 614.9) and is subject to the normal rules for ordering replacement effects (see rule 616). The opponent chooses whether to redirect the damage as the redirection effect is applied.

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By: Jacob Kellogg https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/early-tests-eldritch-moon-emrakul/#comment-2125851 Wed, 22 Jun 2016 16:37:24 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10144#comment-2125851 I want Promised End as a singleton in some kind of (probably Mardu) Nahiri/FLooting shell. You could tutor her with Nahiri’s ultimate (and then have a reasonable chance of re-casting, due to having been able to loot lots of card types), or even loot her into your graveyard alongside Unburial Rites for a turn four reanimation.

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