Comments on: Eldritch Moon Thalia and the Bolt Test https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/eldritch-moon-thalia-bolt-test/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Thu, 07 Jul 2016 00:18:16 +0000 hourly 1 By: Nate Morris https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/eldritch-moon-thalia-bolt-test/#comment-2125914 Thu, 07 Jul 2016 00:18:16 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10241#comment-2125914 No mention of Eiganjo Castle anywhere? I understand this discussion usually relates to the turn the card in question is played, but it’s worth mentioning there is a card that protects her. Do I want to keep 5 mana up to cast her and protect her though? No thanks.

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By: Rik Dean https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/eldritch-moon-thalia-bolt-test/#comment-2125913 Sat, 02 Jul 2016 05:57:56 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10241#comment-2125913 It’s really not a bad pick for D&T, though I agree it shines in the WG lists.

It’s essentially a better Blade Splicer, which still sees play in many lists. It also is likely to do more lifting than Aven Mindcensor.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/eldritch-moon-thalia-bolt-test/#comment-2125912 Fri, 01 Jul 2016 15:01:22 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10241#comment-2125912 In reply to Vidar Thorsby.

They do, although I will say they mostly fail only the “regular” Bolt Test and not the expanded one I defined here. Even if those creatures die to Bolt, they have huge impact on the game and/or create value regardless of whether or not they die.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/eldritch-moon-thalia-bolt-test/#comment-2125911 Fri, 01 Jul 2016 14:59:49 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10241#comment-2125911 In reply to Roland F. Rivera Santiago.

Yeah, that’s where I am too. Vial on T4 is really horrible, and a natural T3 cast isn’t great either.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/eldritch-moon-thalia-bolt-test/#comment-2125910 Fri, 01 Jul 2016 14:58:57 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10241#comment-2125910 In reply to Darcy Hartwick.

That argument is rampant online. I see it literally every time a creature with < 4 toughness gets previewed and multiple people evaluate the card as "bad; dies to Bolt." I wish it was just a lame straw man, but it's actually the argument people make. I also hear it ALL the time in-person. If she's playable, it's because you can drop her T2 on a dork. If that's not good enough, then I agree she' snot going to make the cut.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/eldritch-moon-thalia-bolt-test/#comment-2125909 Thu, 30 Jun 2016 23:59:13 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10241#comment-2125909 In reply to Darcy Hartwick.

You’d be surprised—I’ve heard and seen plenty of people describe the Bolt Test that way. I agree with you that Thalia seems very conditional and therefore pretty bad.

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By: Darcy Hartwick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/eldritch-moon-thalia-bolt-test/#comment-2125908 Thu, 30 Jun 2016 21:06:39 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10241#comment-2125908 I don’t think anyone has ever thought the bolt test was literally “dies to bolt unplayable” as pretty much every competitive deck in the format runs something that dies to bolt – so that’s a pretty lame straw man. That being said I agree with your definition of resource parity, immediate impact, and ability to take over a game.

Note Thalia affects nonbasics only. It’s still annoying with fetches, but when mana is needed most will be able to get a basic.

Personally doubt she’s playable – if it had been 2 cmc for a 2/1 with this effect then yep but as is – not likely

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By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/eldritch-moon-thalia-bolt-test/#comment-2125907 Thu, 30 Jun 2016 14:48:30 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10241#comment-2125907 I’m on board with the “try to get her out there by T2” idea. I don’t think she’s awfully impactful if cast by T3 or Vialed in by T4, so GW Hatebears it is.

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By: Jacob Kellogg https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/eldritch-moon-thalia-bolt-test/#comment-2125906 Thu, 30 Jun 2016 13:09:26 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10241#comment-2125906 In reply to Dan W.

Oh yeah, Unsubstantiate is another one I’m curious about as well. Seems at least worth looking into.

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By: David Ernenwein https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/eldritch-moon-thalia-bolt-test/#comment-2125905 Thu, 30 Jun 2016 04:25:55 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10241#comment-2125905 In reply to Dan W.

I am currently forming my opinion about that card and some others. Will be doing a preview article next week in all likelihood.

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By: Vidar Thorsby https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/eldritch-moon-thalia-bolt-test/#comment-2125904 Thu, 30 Jun 2016 00:15:16 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10241#comment-2125904 Green white hatebars probably like her. A lot of their creatures fails the bolt test already.

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By: Dan W https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/eldritch-moon-thalia-bolt-test/#comment-2125903 Wed, 29 Jun 2016 21:18:51 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10241#comment-2125903 I’d be curious to hear what David (or anyone on the MN team) has to say about Unsubstantiate in modern fish. It looks like a great replacement for vapor snags or echoing truth, as it can stall out a supreme verdict or an abrupt decay. Fish slots come at a premium, and any that can serve as a pseudo counter and a removal spell seems decent to me.

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By: Jacob Kellogg https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/eldritch-moon-thalia-bolt-test/#comment-2125902 Wed, 29 Jun 2016 19:26:12 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10241#comment-2125902 In reply to Sheridan Lardner.

I disagree with your comparison, as Pridemate never gains trample, first strike, or lifelink. Pridemate can grow to the moon but get chumped by tokens or mana dorks all day long. Rider stops at 4, but presents a more significant threat (not to mention being able to flip later copies of itself). I know it’s easy to stop after the commonality of “2-drop that grows from lifegain”, but ignoring three very relevant keywords is a mistake. On top of that, Pridemate needs to hit the table before the lifegain happens, while Rider can be put down after you know he’ll flip; and Pridemate wants multiple triggers while Rider only needs one.

Now, I’m not saying I’m convinced it’s Modern material, but it’s too different from Pridemate for that to be a valid comparison.

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By: Sheridan Lardner https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/eldritch-moon-thalia-bolt-test/#comment-2125901 Wed, 29 Jun 2016 18:31:33 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10241#comment-2125901 In reply to Jacob Kellogg.

Rider is like a more conditional Ajani’s Pridemate. Maybe 1-2 could fit in the deck as Pridemate’s 5-6, but I’m not optimistic. It’s better in the RW deck versions where you can T2 Rider and T3 Helix with one mana up for something else. My big problem with Rider is that its unflipped side is very low-impact at 1/1. Pridemate typically lands as a 3/3 or bigger with a Sister in play, so he can tangle with Guide, Nacatl, and other Burn/Zoo creatures.

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By: Jacob Kellogg https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/06/eldritch-moon-thalia-bolt-test/#comment-2125900 Wed, 29 Jun 2016 17:41:30 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=10241#comment-2125900 Interesting breakdown of the Bolt Test. I’ll be curious to apply it to Lone Rider, which is a new card that will definitely be hitting the kitchen table, but I’ve been trying to decide if it could be non-shameful to bring to my FLGS’s Modern night.

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