Comments on: Izzet True Love? Blue Brews With Kaladesh https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/izzet-true-love-blue-brews-with-kaladesh/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Sat, 08 Oct 2016 20:04:08 +0000 hourly 1 By: Ron Tan https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/izzet-true-love-blue-brews-with-kaladesh/#comment-2126882 Sat, 08 Oct 2016 20:04:08 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11807#comment-2126882 In reply to Ron Tan.

Currently I’m trying your list out since I have all the cards, but instead of 2 thoughtscour im using 2 lava spike to make the deck that slightly more aggressive..

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By: Ron Tan https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/izzet-true-love-blue-brews-with-kaladesh/#comment-2126881 Sat, 08 Oct 2016 20:00:40 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11807#comment-2126881 What’s the reasoning behind having the 2 thoughtscour in your torrential blue moon build?

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By: Kyle Wright https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/izzet-true-love-blue-brews-with-kaladesh/#comment-2126880 Sun, 02 Oct 2016 06:48:51 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11807#comment-2126880 I think Reunion will be good in Grixis delver to some extent. 2 Mana to draw three and discard additional delve creatures, which then also puts back “2” mana in delve resources

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By: William Sabato https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/izzet-true-love-blue-brews-with-kaladesh/#comment-2126879 Sat, 01 Oct 2016 17:58:31 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11807#comment-2126879 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

I would consider adding in a 23rd land. I think thunderous wrath is a good idea but perhaps just a little bit cute. I would prefer a more solid instant in that slot, like the 4th cryptic. Maybe also add electrolyze as it has incredible value when flashed back.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/izzet-true-love-blue-brews-with-kaladesh/#comment-2126878 Sat, 01 Oct 2016 16:18:22 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11807#comment-2126878 In reply to Felicia Doan.

Are you familiar with Turbo Xerox theory?
http://bopmtg-bopmtg.rhcloud.com/blog/turbo-xerox-rule

This deck has 16 cantrips that cost two mana or less.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/izzet-true-love-blue-brews-with-kaladesh/#comment-2126877 Sat, 01 Oct 2016 16:15:25 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11807#comment-2126877 In reply to Matt Spencer.

In terms of raw mana, you’re right—you need to flash back a spell with CMC 5+ to make Gearhulk more mana-efficient than Snapcaster. But you’re underestimating its 5/6 body, which puts a ton of pressure on opponents, and the pertinence of flash in combat. Dropping Gearhulk and blocking a Siege Rhino, all while flashing back another spell, actually nets you an additional 4 mana since you’re eating that threat for free.

As for acceleration, I don’t think it’s necessary if you pack enough disruption. Disrupting and acceleration (example: IoK and Hierarch) serve the same purpose in midrange decks: they bring the game to a state in which we can cast our higher-curve spells. 6 is a lot, but Blue Moon has been known to make plays like Snapcaster-Cryptic. But it’s certainly possible the deck needs more disruption or some acceleration to reliably make it to Gearhulk territory.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/izzet-true-love-blue-brews-with-kaladesh/#comment-2126876 Sat, 01 Oct 2016 16:10:18 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11807#comment-2126876 In reply to Chris Striker.

1. Reunion doesn’t put you down on cards when it cycles spare Revelers. The Reveler puts you down one for each additional Reveler it discards.

2. Yes.

3. Yes.

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By: Daniela Díaz Fernández https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/izzet-true-love-blue-brews-with-kaladesh/#comment-2126875 Sat, 01 Oct 2016 15:55:35 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11807#comment-2126875 In reply to Chris Striker.

It’s not the same. If you end up discarding a Reveler to casting another one, the first Reveler was a dead card you never got to use. When you discard it to Reunion, you trade it for another card that you can use, and then eventually play the second Reveler when you have no cards in hand.

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By: Chris Striker https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/izzet-true-love-blue-brews-with-kaladesh/#comment-2126874 Sat, 01 Oct 2016 02:03:08 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11807#comment-2126874 In reply to Chris Striker.

Oh one more. If it were the case that more cycling was the answer, why no prior lists using tormenting voice? Is the extra dig and discard by one card that significant?

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By: Chris Striker https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/izzet-true-love-blue-brews-with-kaladesh/#comment-2126873 Sat, 01 Oct 2016 02:00:25 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11807#comment-2126873 Thank you for the article! I have some questions about your evaluation of Reunion.
1. You note that the spell helps mitigate the risks of drawing multiple revelers in your delver list. I agree, but in prior work with reveler, your conclusion had been, iirc, that pitching one to play another was bad. Given that in this context, reunion and reveler do essentially the same thing, how is this problem somehow solved? Regardless of whether the method is a reveler or a reunion, we still discard one of our threats to play another.

2. Along the same lines, you also concluded that reactive spells and reveler don’t play well together. Given that your above list runs multiple reactive spells and a reveler playset, how does reunion fix this problem? Is simply doubling up on cycling tools enough to mitigate these tensions?

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By: Matt Spencer https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/izzet-true-love-blue-brews-with-kaladesh/#comment-2126872 Sat, 01 Oct 2016 01:27:20 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11807#comment-2126872 I don’t think Torrential Gearhulk has a place in Modern. There’s no getting around the fact that the card is six mana in a color that does not run mana acceleration. Plus, in order for it to be a better value than Snapcaster Mage, you need to be flashing back instants with CMC 5 or more, and that’s just not something that happens in a format trying to kill you on turn 3. Card will be a house in Commander, but I do not see it making waves in Modern at all, unless there’s a good and reliable way to cheat it out early.

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By: Felicia Doan https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/izzet-true-love-blue-brews-with-kaladesh/#comment-2126871 Fri, 30 Sep 2016 22:41:35 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11807#comment-2126871 In reply to Kevork Agh.

I didn’t know we could run 6 drops in modern with 22 land. Especially without ramp.

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By: Kevork Agh https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/izzet-true-love-blue-brews-with-kaladesh/#comment-2126870 Fri, 30 Sep 2016 19:02:28 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11807#comment-2126870 No Tarmogoyf? Booooo!

But apart from that, these look like spicy. I agree that Grow provides a more robust experience, as many tri-color decks do.

Im not too sure about Torrential Gearhulk.

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