Comments on: Burning in Depth: Sequencing and Mulligans https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/11/burning-in-depth/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Wed, 23 Nov 2016 23:12:38 +0000 hourly 1 By: Jim Casale https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/11/burning-in-depth/#comment-2127254 Wed, 23 Nov 2016 23:12:38 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12276#comment-2127254 In reply to Benjamin Alan Mohr.

I mentioned the worst case scenario for the first hand. Not necessarily the scenario that is likely to happen. Given the prevalence of infect (which the first hand has a hard time beating) and dredge (which the first hand has a hard time beating better dredge draws), I don’t think it’s unreasonable to try to get a 6 card hand with a creature. The real issue with the first hand is that even if you get a 6 card hand with 1 less 2 mana spell, you likely won’t cast them all before you die anyway. The hand doesn’t interact with creatures particularly well and doesn’t pressure with creatures. I think the fail rate of the first type of hand is too high.

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By: Jim Casale https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/11/burning-in-depth/#comment-2127253 Wed, 23 Nov 2016 23:07:51 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12276#comment-2127253 In reply to Darcy Hartwick.

I would mulligan the hand because on average, a 6 card will be as good or better than that 7. It’s true that there are not a lot of 1 mana creatures in the deck but those hands are just head and shoulders above other hands that it is worth mulliganing for. It’s more obvious in a deck like infect that if you dont have 1 of your 12 infect cards you should send the hand back but it’s still pretty close in burn.

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By: Benjamin Alan Mohr https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/11/burning-in-depth/#comment-2127252 Wed, 23 Nov 2016 00:53:14 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12276#comment-2127252 This article compares two cases. Case 1 is the 7 card hand, and case 2 is the 6 card hand. In case 1, your opponent had Spell Snare and Snapcaster Mage. In case 2, you drew Monastery Swiftspear and your opponent didn’t have any interaction at all.

Come on, how often do you really get 8 damage out of Goblin Guide? Path and Bolt are the two most popular spells in the format. Even a Wall of Omens shuts down your plan here.

Also, if you don’t want to see Searing Blaze in your opening hand, why are you main decking it?

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By: Darcy Hartwick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/11/burning-in-depth/#comment-2127251 Mon, 21 Nov 2016 19:47:51 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12276#comment-2127251 In reply to RJ Sims.

I like how you throw the burn hand back because you need a one mana creature… do you then stack the deck to make sure you get one with your six card hand?

We usually dont mulligan decent hands because there is no assurance we wont just mull into oblivion or find ourselves with the exact same problem with one less card to use.

When you know the hand wont win the game anyways you toss it. But you need to know what your opponent is on to make that call. If your opponent is on infect that searing blaze looks a lot better.

When your hand deals 17 and you just need to not peel three two drops in a row thats pretty good odds. Id like to see you throw it back and mull to four keeping a hand of land land searing blaze boros charm as your just deserts!

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By: Rory Alexander Farrell-Madden McDonough https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/11/burning-in-depth/#comment-2127250 Mon, 21 Nov 2016 18:25:41 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12276#comment-2127250 As someone who plays a lot of Naya Burn, I really think you can’t afford to mulligan hands like that. Burn is perhaps the deck in Modern that has the most to lose from a mulligan, as its whole strategy rests on using a mass of individual cards to ping your opponent’s life total down to 0.

While the hand you presented is not stellar (namely, it has no creatures), it’s in the clear keep category for me. On the play, it opens with a weak start, but there are plenty of scenarios that have you goldfishing 17-20+ damage by Turn 4. Drawing a Land, Goblin Guide, a Swiftspear, and Eidolon, a Lavamancer, a Rift Bolt, a Lava Spike, or Lightning Bolt pretty much guarantees 17-20 damage gold-fishing by Turn 4, and in the rare scenario where you don’t (you draw basically only 2 mana spells or totally flood out against someone with no creatures), you’re still pretty much a lock for a Turn 5 kill, which will often get you there.

On the draw, this hand looks even better. You have decent odds of getting out a T1 creature and are basically guaranteed to get a kill on your turn 4 with the extra card.

In contrast, a lot can go wrong with a mulligan to 6. You could be forced to keep a 1 land hand that goes nowhere, you could draw a similarly mediocre hand with a bunch of 2 drops minus 1 less piece of removal, you could draw a hand with 3+ lands, which in almost any scenario won’t be as attractive, etc.

I agree creatures are great in Burn, and your most explosive wins will be a pile of creatures followed by an Atarka’s Command or a few pieces of Burn. An Eidolon will just flat out win games against certain decks (or give them serious problems if they can’t find removal). However, it’s the rare game where a T1 Goblin Guide represents 6 or even 8 damage. Those games happen, and it’s terrific to have that kind of ceiling, but just as often your goblin guide gets bolted or blocked after 1 swing. Sometimes your turn 1 goblin guide on the draw might as well read “your opponent takes 0 damage, must spend 1 red mana, discard a lightning bolt, and draw a land card into their hand”.

Ultimately, we just can’t be that picky with Burn. Every mulligan is a flirtation with disaster and should really only be done if you explicitly know your hand is bad against the match-up or your hand is way too fragile to get you there (has 4+ lands, 1 or 0 lands, no turn 1 play, and some other very extreme corner cases, etc.).

I think that Dredge hand is probably keepable, though I don’t play a lot of Dredge. It has some immediate gas, an enabler, an awesome piece of removal, and the chance to look at several cards through the next few turns. So it doesn’t take too much for the hand to get the engine going.

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By: João Costa https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/11/burning-in-depth/#comment-2127249 Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:48:44 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12276#comment-2127249 Loved the article. I completely understand the reasoning behind mulling such a hand, and i can truly get behind that.

About the current hand you are mentioning… I would mulligan this hand without regrets.

1- It has no Dredger’s. It’s very dependant on getting one with Faithless Looting
2- It only brings 4 power to the table, and on turn 3, because they won’t have haste on Turn 2.

This deck aims to have an overwhelming position over our opponents in the first turns, not to “gain value”. Sure, the Bloodghasts won’t be “dead” on the graveyard, but this is by far one of the slowest, and dependant hands you could manage. And you can manage better.

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By: RJ Sims https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/11/burning-in-depth/#comment-2127248 Mon, 21 Nov 2016 03:44:32 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12276#comment-2127248 Well I’m glad I’m not totally crazy when I was the only one last week who said I wouldn’t keep that opening burn hand. Helps that my #1 go-to Modern deck is Naya burn. Rule of thumb for me is to never keep an opening hand without a dude and no more than three land. Eidolon is super underrated. I discovered its power when playing vs. elves and infect. Two Eidolons on board left unanswered straight win the game. If we go to game two I will sometimes side out Eidolon vs. Tron seeing as my op will have cycled most of his eggs not getting much value out of Eidolon and will actually hurt me more than it does them. Goblin Guide is the 100% best creature in the deck, not only does he present 2+ damage at least if not more he also provides us with pseudo hand information. Helps us play around things that we know are coming.

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By: Clody Cordette https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/11/burning-in-depth/#comment-2127247 Sun, 20 Nov 2016 19:25:05 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12276#comment-2127247 Hi , great article ! I’m a big fan of this type of article \o/

For me I would mull the dredge hand .
Of course you have the line of play :
Turn 1 : Land + Faithless => discard the both bloodghast
Turn 2 : Land => bring back the both bloodghast

But if you don’t draw a dredger with the faithless , your hand become incredibely slow ! even if you draw your dredge on turn two ( with the natural draw) you can’t discard it before the turn 3 ( with the flashback of faithless or conflagrate )
I think this hand is too risky

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By: KILLERDIVINE32 https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/11/burning-in-depth/#comment-2127246 Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:33:48 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12276#comment-2127246 Great Read, really like how you broke down the hand.
My take on the dredge hand, I would keep.
Reasoning being turn 1 faithless looting , draw regularly hope to hit a dredger to discard along with a bloodghast. Turn 2 dredge the hopeful dredger, play second land get back bloodghast and hopefully amalgam with other dredgers now in your graveyard.
Also what’s your take on the SSG dredge lists? Turn 1 Cathartic reunion is so explosive

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By: Jesse White https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/11/burning-in-depth/#comment-2127245 Sat, 19 Nov 2016 19:37:06 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=12276#comment-2127245 Great article; creatures are everything in burn! Regarding the dredge hand, I would keep, and here’s why:
First turn faithless looting can bin both of our bloodghasts. Turn 2, we can fetch, decide whether or not to trigger the ghasts (I usually will, unless I need to ensure that I can trigger amalgam later), and conflagrate for zero. On turn 3 we can flashback conflagrate for 4 to bin any dredgers in hand, then follow up with a dredge on our next draw step and a flashed back faithless looting! Great hand: 3 lands (crucial!), fast beats and disruption via creature removal!

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