Comments on: Digging Delver, the Columbus Classic, and Hidden Herbalists https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:12:11 +0000 hourly 1 By: Matt M https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/#comment-2127858 Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:12:11 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13053#comment-2127858 For what it’s worth, I will miss your articles but hopefully this frees you up to do more SSG coverage. I personally feel you and Mathias Hunt have a great chemistry and are better than anything WotC has going on in their coverage.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/#comment-2127857 Tue, 31 Jan 2017 19:48:18 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13053#comment-2127857 In reply to Roland F. Rivera Santiago.

Thank you!

The Renegade has actually been performing very well- worth noting that I have started playing Ghor-Clan Rampager over Manamorphose since this writing. The deathtouch just allows it to always attack, which can’t be said of the other creatures. I like Domri, and it’s worth trying. I currently have one Ranger of Eos in the board, and the mana efficiency on Domri could just make that better.

Terminate matters a lot with Bant Eldrazi poised to pick up in popularity (two copies in the Top 8 of the Columbus Classic- one of my losses) and I can’t really justify shaving it as things stand. The two K-Command feels a bit heavy-handed and I could see turning one of those into the second push. The three mana spells have always been a bit taxing.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/#comment-2127856 Tue, 31 Jan 2017 19:41:44 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13053#comment-2127856 In reply to Erik Perel.

Spell Pierce has been in my sideboard for some time, and comes in seldom enough that I would not consider it for maindeck inclusion. Too many of the games with this deck go long to utilize Pierce consistently.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/#comment-2127855 Tue, 31 Jan 2017 19:34:18 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13053#comment-2127855 In reply to Andreas Bendix.

Thank you! It’s a question that has come up before, and it’s something that gets shut down on paper. You exile stuff from your graveyard (Delver, Snapcaster) enough to make Rune Snag the worse card too often.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/#comment-2127854 Tue, 31 Jan 2017 19:33:09 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13053#comment-2127854 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

The builds that I have been successful with are heavily focused on interaction, and many of my games go long. Blood Moon feels like a mulligan often enough that it just doesn’t make the cut. Other players advocate it and have had success, but you should be looking at their lists and asking them rather than putting Blood Moon in a list similar to mine.

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By: Jim Griffith https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/#comment-2127853 Tue, 31 Jan 2017 18:23:03 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13053#comment-2127853 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

This was my original thought, but my experience with fair decks in modern is limited to Pod, so it’s really not my area of expertise. Now that I’m on grixis, it feels like getting a turn two delve threat under a lock piece like Blood Moon would play well, but I’ll defer to others who have more reps.

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By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/#comment-2127852 Mon, 30 Jan 2017 16:19:55 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13053#comment-2127852 Hey Ryan,

That Bushwhacker Zoo list looks great. I think fetches 13-14 are a bit much (makes the deck a bit vulnerable to land hate for my taste), but otherwise I’ve goldfished with the deck and it feels pretty powerful. The only card I’m somewhat iffy on is Narnam Renegade, but it’s frankly the best of what’s available. What do you think of Domri Rade as a sideboard card against the Jund types? I’ve always been a fan of it.

As for your Delver list, I’m surprised by the 4 Terminate/1 Push mix. I agree with you that Push is more of a useful tool than a format-defining force, but in a deck as defined by efficiency as Grixis Delver is, I’d think Push would merit getting a 2nd copy snuck in there somewhere.

Last but not least, good luck in your further endeavors.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/#comment-2127851 Sun, 29 Jan 2017 03:48:33 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13053#comment-2127851 In reply to Ryan Overturf.

JW, how come? Since it’s so good at supplementing the enchantment with a clock, I’ve found Delver to be the archetype best suited to utilize Moon in Modern.

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By: Zach Stackhouse https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/#comment-2127850 Fri, 27 Jan 2017 19:23:04 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13053#comment-2127850 In reply to Kyle Wright.

You don’t need four, as manamorphose by itself doesn’t actually help your gameplan. It is solely there for the few occasions where you want to Herbalist into Bushwhacker when you don’t also have a shaman to turn GG into RG. Four would be clunky, reducing your threat count while also occasionally bringing up two into your hand. Would suck to go Herbalist > Manamorphose > Manamorphose and not have a bushwhacker payoff.

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By: Kyle Wright https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/#comment-2127849 Thu, 26 Jan 2017 16:51:25 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13053#comment-2127849 2 Manamorphose is weird. Why not just run 4. Then you can always switch mana off the 8BTEs in the combo that you need without losing any speed or cards.

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By: Erik Perel https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/#comment-2127848 Thu, 26 Jan 2017 16:38:40 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13053#comment-2127848 With the added creature removal now with Fatal Push, do you think it would make sense to change some or all of the Spell Snares to Pierces in the Delver list? It seems like the removal suite would be able to keep the board clear, and Pierce would allow you to tag a lot of things that either Snare or Mana Leak would miss.

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By: Andreas Bendix https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/#comment-2127847 Thu, 26 Jan 2017 12:11:46 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13053#comment-2127847 Hi Ryan,

First off, good luck in your future endeavors 🙂
Second off, have you considered rune snag rather than mana leak?

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/#comment-2127846 Thu, 26 Jan 2017 02:07:49 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13053#comment-2127846 In reply to Jim Griffith.

The one Push seems fine. Card is on average worse than Lightning Bolt and Terminate. I strongly dislike Blood Moon out of the Delver sideboard.

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By: Jim Griffith https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/#comment-2127845 Wed, 25 Jan 2017 23:58:07 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13053#comment-2127845 Did you find the one copy of Push to be appropriate moving forward? I’m also curious to know what you’d think of Blood Moon out of our grixis decks. I know you wrote about a dedicate Moon deck last week, but I’m thinking more Delver with sideboard moons – similar to twin decks of old.

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By: Ryan Overturf https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/#comment-2127844 Wed, 25 Jan 2017 22:51:57 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13053#comment-2127844 In reply to Oliver Webster.

Destructive Revelry jumps out at me as a strong option. Lightning Helix and/or Kitchen Finks for red mirrors seems solid, and the Finks pull double duty against removal-heavy decks. With Ad Nauseum winning the last Classic I could see Thalia and/or Gaddock Teeg being servicable options. A Couple Surgical Extractions as a hedge against Goryo’s Vengeance also seems reasonable.

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By: Oliver Webster https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/01/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/#comment-2127843 Wed, 25 Jan 2017 21:35:12 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=13053#comment-2127843 This list looks so fast. I was playing Bushwacker Zoo until recently. Any time we have a 2 of as with Manamorhose it looks a bit random but I can see the need for the filtering to red. Do you have any SIdeboard suggestions for this listing? I am going to run this at my FNM this Friday. We normally get 20-30 players so it should be a good test.

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