Comments on: Comprehensively Reviewing Amonkhet for Modern https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Wed, 19 Apr 2017 15:31:17 +0000 hourly 1 By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128230 Wed, 19 Apr 2017 15:31:17 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128230 In reply to Jacob Kellogg.

Way less flexible than what you get for two mana (Clasm). Even Forked Bolt is more dynamic at the same cost. Bolt won’t kill four tokens, but it will kill two, and Volley won’t ever kill a new Scooze. Versatility commands a premium in Modern; this card won’t see play.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128229 Wed, 19 Apr 2017 15:29:22 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128229 In reply to Collin Blair.

Check out my comment above. Soulfire is not a playable Modern creature, either: http://quietspeculation.com/whats-goyf-benchmark-creature-playability-modern/

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128228 Wed, 19 Apr 2017 15:28:16 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128228 In reply to Michael Lewis.

Doesn’t keep them alive, so no.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128227 Wed, 19 Apr 2017 15:27:45 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128227 In reply to William Sabato.

When disregarding haste, you’re right, they attack for the same amount. I’m not going to just ignore that Swiftspear has one of the most powerful combat keywords in Magic though.

Bone Picker is awful IMO—try it and you’ll see that the setup is way too steep for such a lousy payoff. Casting Picker on turn two after killing an opposing creature only works against decks with little creatures. Picker is just dead against stuff like Tron and Ad Nauseam, which are the matchups you’d want a one-mana 3/2 in anyway. Biggest trap of the set!

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By: Collin Blair https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128226 Tue, 18 Apr 2017 14:56:34 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128226 What about bone picker? I honestly feel like it could help out decks like mardu a good amount. It would make bob harder to run. you would probably have to run soulfire grand masters and lightning helix to negate the 4 cost of the black delver. just a thought.

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By: Jacob Kellogg https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128225 Mon, 17 Apr 2017 21:44:30 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128225 Is nobody going to even mention Blazing Volley? Sure, it’s not flashy, but it’s a sideboard card that answers Lingering Souls fairly cleanly and also kills half or more of Affinity for 1 mana.

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By: William Sabato https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128224 Mon, 17 Apr 2017 18:23:09 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128224 In reply to Michael Lewis.

Doubt it. Their mana isnt good enough really and even if they can cast her, its probably better for them to be finding tron or using tron to cast Karn/Ugin/wurmcoil

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By: William Sabato https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128223 Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:28:47 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128223 In reply to David Ekstam.

I fail to see how soul scar mage is a worse attacker on an empty board/ is attacking for less than swiftspear when disregarding haste. They both have prowess and are 1/2 so we are basically deciding if wither burn is better than haste. I personally see wither burn as negligible a lot, but it helps against eldrazi tron, death shadow, and other bg decks with goyf.

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By: William Sabato https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128222 Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:25:44 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128222 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

As a Mardu player I am intrigued by cut//ribbons. Mardu has tradionally had trouble closing the game compared to BG counterparts. This spell could allow it to finish games quickly. I would run like 1-2.

I am surprised that you didnt mention Bone Picker once. A 1 mana 3/2 with flying and deathtouch is the best case scenario, but delver has proven that a 3/2 flying body is often worthwhile. For decks running a decent amount of lightning bolt and fatal push, casting this turn 2 should be easy. The only flaw of this would be decks lacking early creatures. Perhaps too slow, but I thought it was worth a mention.

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By: Michael Lewis https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128221 Mon, 17 Apr 2017 15:24:58 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128221 Do you see Nissa Steward of Elements making Tron?

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128220 Sat, 15 Apr 2017 23:31:44 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128220 In reply to Allstone.

Fine as additional copies of Melira/Anafenza, but I don’t think that’s what these decks are really after right now. Still, Vizier or Remedies slipped past me and I think it’s possible the card sees Modern play in that kind of deck.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128219 Sat, 15 Apr 2017 23:30:33 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128219 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

I disagree with your premise that pay 1 is nearly as good as pay 3 in the early turns. It’s far easier to stop an early Bolt or Path with Leak than it is to do so with Censor. SSM does not provide enough damage for the cheap criterion (or evasion/bulk, which is really important to this kind of deck) or generate value, which is why it’s not good enough. I’ll give you interesting, though!

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By: David Ekstam https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128218 Sat, 15 Apr 2017 21:52:54 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128218 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

Yes, censor becomes dead a lot faster than leaks does, nice call. However, leak does not always turn into a cantrip when you need it and pay 1 is often as good as pay 3 in early turns. The real issue is that censor does a worse job at protecting your queen against 1 cmc removal.

Well, SSM does obviously hit the cheap and value criterion for your so I guess you should consider it by your rational. It is likely not be good enough, but it is at least interesting.

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By: Allstone https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128217 Sat, 15 Apr 2017 18:20:22 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128217 I’ve seen some people speculating about Vizier of Remedies as an option in abzan company to combo with persist creatures and/or devoted druid. Do you have any particular opinions on it?

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By: Darcy Hartwick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128216 Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:23:24 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128216 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

Right, and when you just want a 1 cmc black threat for the mid-late game in control you would just run tasigur/angler which are way easier to reduce reliably than vulture, and dont die to decay+bolt+push.

Makes sense – vulture falls in no mans land. It’s bad at being a delver and bad at being a tasigur.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128215 Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:12:04 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128215 In reply to Darcy Hartwick.

Vizier is better in decks that have creatures that cost 4 or more mana, like Bant Eldrazi. Can’t CoCo into those. I think it’s also an attractive Chord target and can see a single copy making the 75 of some CoCo lists, perhaps alongside Tireless Tracker for more help against grindy decks.

Having access to an “X damage” spell for free (assuming Cut did something) gives players inevitability. It makes enemy decisions a lot harder when it comes to killing pesky Snaps or leaving up mana to answer a Tar Pit in the same way Conflagrate did for Dredge. They have to remember and respect the Ribbons in the grave. I’m feeling less optimistic about Cut, though—that half is really bad. Wish Ribbons gained life, too.

Good call on the cycling creatures; I forgot about Living End. They will definitely make these changes. Cycling lands are slow and bad.

Vulture looked awesome to me too at first, but it’s a little too narrow for Modern. Cheap, evasive beaters in spell-based interactive decks are best used to pressure linear opponents early, and those decks don’t always have removal targets or care about removing threats themselves (Tron, Ad Nauseam, Grishoalbrand, etc.). It’s a pseudo-Delver that doesn’t do Delver’s main job very well. In matchups with lots of creatures to kill, something like Snapcaster is already better than Vulture.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128214 Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:05:41 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128214 In reply to David Ekstam.

Censor becomes dead a lot faster than Leak does, which makes it more attractive for decks that are likelier to bring games to a state wherein Leak is dead. If Leak is usually live in Delver, there’s no reason to play Censor there.

If we’re talking about Grixis Delver, we shouldn’t be considering creatures that don’t apply cheap, evasive pressure, serious bulk, or value at all. I seriously doubt SSM sees any play in this deck.

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By: David Ekstam https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128213 Sat, 15 Apr 2017 07:00:34 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128213 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

By the same logic, Delver may also apply enough pressure to keep censor live as well?

Regarding Swiftspear, remember that we are talking about grixis delver, a deck that isn’t that interested in the 1-2 damage the haste represents. Soul-scar mage is obviously a worse attacker than swiftspear (on an empty board), but it plays defence so much better. Also note the even if you pack terminates instead of pushes, your MU against eldrazi is really difficult.

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By: Darcy Hartwick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128212 Sat, 15 Apr 2017 02:30:40 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128212 I think Vizier’s problem will always be “why aren’t you just playing collected company instead?” You could technically play them together, but company decks have very little space for cards that company doesnt hit. I think its usually around 8 total, and usually 4 of them are path to exile.

Cut to Ribbons… how is ribbons good? If you’re a deck that is at all interested in having lots of mana with nothing to do with it play some manlands? I can’t see too many modern games turned by tapping out for a one shot 4 damage to the face, and if they were I’d still probably be running tar pit, ravine, or even lavaclaw reaches first. Roast and Flame Slash don’t really get played anymore as far as I can tell, let alone a worse version.

As for missed cards – I think desert cerodon probably replaces deadshot minotaur in living end? 6/4 instead of 3/4 and won’t randomly zap your own faerie macabres. And if anyone was still playing jungle weaver greater sandwurm might be an upgrade (no reach but better at connecting for dmg).

No hope for cycling lands? Probably too slow to ignite some new life from the loam engine but I could still imagine it kind-of working?

And last one I’d note is the vulture. B for 3/2 flying deathtouch is pretty solid. I don’t know what deck wants this but I would imagine some kind of liliana of the veil + fatal push control deck of which there are many variations. May still be too lousy too often, but theres some potential.

Agree totally on the harsh mentor. At first I thought it looked great, then tried to think of where it goes. One note for zoo – you can’t cast an eidolon off a burning tree, you could cast this. Also the effect is not symmetrical so it doesnt have the same deckbuilding constraints of suppression field.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/04/comprehensively-reviewing-amonkhet/#comment-2128211 Sat, 15 Apr 2017 02:09:41 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=14093#comment-2128211 In reply to David Ekstam.

Censor isn’t ideal for Grixis Delver, a deck that applies enough pressure to largely ignore Leak’s drawback of being dead late. Soul-Scar seems awful. It’s not just attacking for less than Swiftspear—it lacks haste! That’s significantly less damage. If you want to beat Eldrazi, play Terminates. As for Pull, this kind of effect is usually played in decks that spend their early game trying not to lose. I’d wager the lifegain on Rev is more important than the loot for them, lest opponents just burn them out once they’ve stabilized the board.

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