Comments on: The Dangers of Over-Sideboarding in Modern

By: Ryland Taliaferro

Ryland Taliaferro — Tue, 09 May 2017 21:47:44 +0000

Thanks Martin! I appreciate the read!

In principle I am willing to accept the premise that the cost of playing a Surgical can be overcome by the need to side out a truly awful card (hence the second example where I would bring in Surgical). However, I feel strongly that Tarfire does not fit this description. When I’m playing DSJ I don’t register Tarfire because it is outstanding in any specific matchup; I play it because it serves 3 purposes:

1) Allows me to accelerate quickly into having delirium considering it has two types that
are otherwise difficult for me to put in the yard early as well as growing Goyfs quickly.
2) Allows me to damage myself for two to cast my Shadows sooner as well as grow them.
3) Occasionally can kill an opponents creature or hit my opponent for the final couple
points of damage.

Point 3 certainly is not relevant against Tron but point 1 and 2 are especially important and I definitely want my Tarfires in as such. If killing my opponents creatures and doming my opponent was the most important factor, I would just play Bolt!

Thanks again for the welcome and I definitely appreciate your contribution to the discussion!

By: Martin Ferdinand Møller

Martin Ferdinand Møller — Tue, 09 May 2017 08:10:04 +0000

First of all welcome to the site holy.
I really like the discussion presented here, though I actually disagree with the case here. The cost of playing a surgical far out weighs the costs when you take out something like tarfire which is almost stone dead in the match up. Because if you assemble the two cards its game over. That is enough for me to bring in the card.
That said oversideboarding is a real danger. Decks I really struggle with getting the balance is decks that are really synergy driven like storm, company decks etc.

By: Chris Striker

Chris Striker — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 18:12:37 +0000

In reply to Ryland Taliaferro.

Likewise! I see the points in your argument, and definitely agree that the call is a close one, and probably depends as much on the kind of game you are able to play–turn 1 take a sylvan scrying, for example–as any other factor.

By: Ryland Taliaferro

Ryland Taliaferro — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 16:16:22 +0000

In reply to Chris Striker.

Let me be clear in one regard at least; I intentionally picked a case I thought to be VERY close to create more interesting discussion, so while I disagree, I don’t think you are entirely off-base.

“…if given 4-5 turns, Tron will play cards DS cannot beat with any spell in it’s deck (Worldbreaker, for example) and that we can only barely outclass with a Death’s Shadow. Five turns is quite a few. I’m generally not planning on giving Tron that many turns, especially undisrupted. Five turns is typically going to be enough to get the job done, when they will be doing relatively little to stop you, especially through your discard. I also disagree that Worldbreaker is a card that we cannot beat as DS Jund. It can be outclassed by both Death Shadow as well as even Goyf; or removed by Terminate, Liliana of the Veil, or Maelstrom Pulse.

In addition, I think calling Surgical a “free win” when used in combination with Fulminator Mage is a bit disingenuous. In the scenario I laid out in the article you are a game up and will almost certainly be on the draw. It is not unfathomable that your opponent will be able to sneak a threat through before you are able to Fulminator, if they are able to produce Tron on turn 3. In such a case, extracting an Urza land would not be sufficient to win a game.

Like I said I think it is definitely close and situational. Thanks for reading and I appreciate you commenting to further the discussion!

By: Chris Striker

Chris Striker — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 15:24:16 +0000

Having played Death’s Shadow Jund a fair bit over the last few months, I have to disagree pretty thoroughly with your analysis of the GW Tron board plan. Surgical is less a requirement than it would be in a list keeping to the 3 Fulminator/2 Surgical split that’s more common when lands decks (Tron, Valakut) are clearly at the top of the format, but nonetheless the card is important and relevant against Tron, and should always be boarded in, regardless of whether it’s used in conjunction with a Fulminator to generate a free win. The point that you’re missing is the role and matchup analysis for which you’re boarding cards in here. DS Jund is fast and consistent thanks to Traverse and it’s deck thinning enablers. Nonetheless, if given 4-5 turns, Tron will play cards DS cannot beat with any spell in it’s deck (Worldbreaker, for example) and that we can only barely outclass with a Death’s Shadow. This puts any Shadow player firmly into the aggressive role. Here, regardless of whether Surgical is paired with Fulminator, its an additional free spell that can put a Death’s Shadow on the battlefield a turn earlier. The fact that it is free is hugely important, because Shadow decks don’t lose games because they don’t draw enough cards, they lose games because they cannot deploy their cards quickly enough. Especially in a matchup where your opponent’s control plan is unbeatable given enough time, boarding in Surgical knowing that it’s an incidental free win is only going to keep someone unfamiliar with playing aggressively in a midrange oriented deck from using that extra life loss to win the turn before tron gets a body online through the discard and disruption. It’s an important option in your overall gameplan while also offering the chance at victory from another angle of play. Not boarding in the Surgical is incorrect.