Comments on: Insider: Analyzing EDHREC’s usefulness for MTG Finance https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/06/insider-analyzing-edhrecs-usefulness-for-mtg-finance/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Tue, 18 Jan 2022 02:01:26 +0000 hourly 1 By: Niels Rietkerk https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/06/insider-analyzing-edhrecs-usefulness-for-mtg-finance/#comment-1885558 Wed, 28 Jun 2017 12:59:32 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=80991#comment-1885558 In reply to Sigmund Ausfresser.

I fully agree with you up to the point that you say “this should correlate fairly well”. The whole point of my article is that there are plausible reasons for why it won’t. I am not saying it’s impossible that it correlates, but I believe that’s limited to specific cases rather than all cards (hence my conclusion that there’s merit in looking at the top cards).

Is there anything in my analysis that you disagree with?

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By: Sigmund Ausfresser https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/06/insider-analyzing-edhrecs-usefulness-for-mtg-finance/#comment-1885209 Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:58:09 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=80991#comment-1885209 I appreciate your analysis; it’s good to have this transparency on our site since we do tend to look towards EDH REC frequently when considering commander specs.

What I’ll add is that I believe in EDH REC’s trends moreso than its absolute numbers. I don’t analyze an Atraxa deck and then expect to see the full list of 100 cards show up at my LGS. Everyone has their own budgets, approaches, interests, etc. But when all the information is pooled in an aggregate sense on EDH REC, I start to believe more and more in what cards are popular and what ones aren’t. I’m not looking to predict how many copies of a card I’ll see at a local shop – I’m more interested in seeing how often players are looking at particular cards to include in their decks (whether actual lists or ideal lists). To me, this should correlate fairly well with demand, enough so that I think the data is useful enough.

Thanks again for posting this information!

Sig

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By: Niels Rietkerk https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/06/insider-analyzing-edhrecs-usefulness-for-mtg-finance/#comment-1883748 Fri, 23 Jun 2017 13:18:21 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=80991#comment-1883748 In reply to David Schumann.

The lack of data is always difficult unfortunately. I’m not denying that EDHREC is the best available source, we just can’t be sure whether it’s actually good for our purposes.

In a sense an arms race comes naturally, even my friends who barely if at all read / post online about Commander realised it. The thing is that they then chose not to participate. Most of them kept building the way they like, with this changing only when some more competitive oriented players joined in (shortly after which many of our more casual players stopped showing up).

The thing is that while groups may always end up in an arms race, it may very well not be towards some sort of ideal form of a deck due to the group’s meta and finances. There are many groups who never interact with other groups, or rarely. In fact, I believe this is the vast majority of groups, however, because you by their very nature don’t see them at your LGS it’s hard to quantify them. These are people who buy online or in big chain stores, or only purchase some things at your LGS and then leave without interacting with other players.

The difficulty is that these people are easy to miss, yet due to their numbers still represent significant purchasing power. Which leads to totally skewed financial results when they don’t behave as predicted by EDHREC as they choose their own path. Of course your local group(s) may behave exactly like EDHREC predicts, but more likely it will deviate to some extent, possibly barely, but likely largely. As your experience seems to be a drive towards stronger decks your group(s) may very well skew towards more competitve / expensive than EDHREC does. Other groups may very well skew more towards casual / budget. I personally skew more towards casual / expensive, as did my original Commander group (all long time players).

Personally I don’t think there’s a need to homogenize a playgroup to deal with the arms race. I do think though that talking about what different players are looking to get out of a game and what is and isn’t acceptable within the group is imperative so that there might be a gentlemen’s agreement that prevents the biggest issues that the arms race might cause.

TL;DR You may very well be right for your group, but due to the nature of the problem we can’t be sure to what extent it applies outside of our scope.

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By: David Schumann https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/06/insider-analyzing-edhrecs-usefulness-for-mtg-finance/#comment-1883742 Fri, 23 Jun 2017 12:17:58 +0000 http://www.quietspeculation.com/?p=80991#comment-1883742 I really enjoyed this article Niels. I didn’t consider the potential for bias when using EDHREC and you bring in some very valid points. I would argue that while I definitely understand your argument that a lot of more casual players decks will likely vary greatly from the “ideal” EDHREC deck, because they don’t post their decks online there isn’t data to pull from. One of the greatest things about Magic is that it allows players to bring their own ideas to the table and do what they want to do, however, my experience is that once players start to “upgrade” their casual decks it ends up starting an arms race that cascades throughout the local play groups. The only way I’ve seen to combat this is to homogenize your play group to include only players who have similar goals as your own.

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