Comments on: The Bilbao Effect: The Chance to Change Modern Forever https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Mon, 07 Aug 2017 22:35:49 +0000 hourly 1 By: RJ Sims https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/#comment-2128592 Mon, 07 Aug 2017 22:35:49 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15025#comment-2128592 Hey Trev.

I feel like (looking at the comments) a lot of us lost sight of the big picture:
MODERN PRO TOUR IS BACK! Wooo! 😀
I’m stoked. I’m going to be grinding PPTQs for the next two months at a shot at RPTQ Berkeley, CA. I thought I was confined to Grand Prix for the rest of my life 😛 I don’t care if there are a dozen pro tours per year and only one or two of them are Modern format. The fact that they brought it back is awesome. Cheers.

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By: Aitor OlavarrĂ­a https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/#comment-2128591 Sat, 05 Aug 2017 12:19:00 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15025#comment-2128591 Hello, I am other Spanish, from a city near to Bilbao. I think that “Bilbao probably wouldn’t even exist today, if not for one event: the design and construction of the Guggenheim Museum, by Frank Gehry.” is pretty exaggerated…an aproppiate idea for an architecture student but not very real. The economy in Bilbao is strong, the Guggenheim is part of a bigger Project for revitalizating a depressed zone of the city with great posibilities. In my opinion is pretty ugly but it works.

About the tourism in Bilbao, is fine, the local people are happy with the cultural tourism.

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By: Jon Garcia https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/#comment-2128590 Fri, 04 Aug 2017 20:34:55 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15025#comment-2128590 In reply to Trevor Holmes.

The tourism in bilbao is not nearly as annoying as in other cities such as Barcelona or Seville. In fact its quite rare to see big groups of tourists. I have to say that i dont live in the downtown so maybe other people have different experiences. Bilbao is a wonderfull city and it has lots of things to visit apart from the guggenheim.

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/#comment-2128589 Fri, 04 Aug 2017 17:18:13 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15025#comment-2128589 In reply to Jon Garcia.

Jon,

That’s awesome! I hope you didn’t take offense, for those of us in America that aren’t familiar with architecture, Bilbao isn’t as well-known as some other cities in Spain, which I think is a shame. I’m curious to hear firsthand about your opinion on tourism to your city, are you annoyed with it like New Yorkers are with Times Square? I’ve read that most locals are torn about the Guggenheim, they recognize the effect it has had but wish people would just go away.

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By: Jon Garcia https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/#comment-2128588 Fri, 04 Aug 2017 14:35:26 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15025#comment-2128588 Hi trevor i’m from Bilbao and i’m quite excited with this modern pro tour. One quick note, Bilbao may be the city number ten in population but the sorrounding area goes up to one million of inhabitants so it’s importance is quite the same as seville and valencia. Speaking now about magic i think a modern pro tour can only be positive for the format because it’s the best way to show modern to casual viewers. One of the fears that modern players have is the lack of high stage tournaments having as a consecuence the decline of the format and the retun of modern pro tours recovers the confiance of the players on wotc. I agree with you about the banns. They are a part of the game, but if you have paper collection can be quite harmful. Despite that i think the pros of having a modern pro tour outweight the cons.

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By: Zach Stackhouse https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/#comment-2128587 Fri, 04 Aug 2017 14:06:30 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15025#comment-2128587 In reply to Dennis Sundström.

I have never seen a 3K modern deck, barring all foils or something like that. In fact, 1K now really covers the high-end as 3 color midrange goodstuffs decks like jund have been supplanted by grixis shadow and eldrazi tron, both of which fall a hair under $1,000.

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By: Zach Stackhouse https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/#comment-2128586 Fri, 04 Aug 2017 14:03:07 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15025#comment-2128586 In reply to Darcy Hartwick.

Why is it too much change? I mean, there is no guarantee that the first deck you obtain will be viable, let alone tier 1, forever. It simply does not go away due to a rotation.

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/#comment-2128585 Fri, 04 Aug 2017 13:02:04 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15025#comment-2128585 In reply to Dennis Sundström.

Dennis,

I agree that there is a big difference between ‘shake-up’ bans and ‘fix-it’ bans. My opinion is that to this point, most of the language around bans have been ‘fix-it’, talk, where with a slight pivot WoTC could change the narrative entirely. Get us to expect bans, and they change the discussion and the perception around them.

I understand the finance point. I really do. I don’t think they can move to a regular banning schedule without doing something to bring down the cost of entry for Modern. They’ve shown with Modern Masters and Masterpieces and the like that a desire exists to get more cards into the community, but more needs to be done. This is an extremely complicated issue with tons of points and counterpoints, and 2000 words only gives me enough to introduce the concept.

I sold out of the game shortly after I Day Two’d Pro Tour Magic Origins. I still love the game and play and write constantly (obviously), but I had other goals in mind and couldn’t justify the cost of owning a collection when I rarely had time to take a Friday to play with them.

Thanks,
Trevor

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By: Graeme Holliday https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/#comment-2128584 Fri, 04 Aug 2017 01:10:35 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15025#comment-2128584 In reply to Trevor Holmes.

There’s a lot of info on this very site that explains the motivation behind the Twin ban, but I won’t get into that.

I suppose that, having played paper Magic in the past, you do understand the finance perspective. I apologise.

If you think about the past 2 years of sets, new cards can have a huge impact on the metagame. I’m fine with that being the only way to freshen up the meta, and since I believe this is also the position of the majority of the playerbase, WotC should probably ban in a way that reflects that belief.

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By: Dennis Sundström https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/#comment-2128583 Fri, 04 Aug 2017 01:03:12 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15025#comment-2128583 There is a pretty big difference between bannings to even out a broken meta (eldrazi winter for example) and to “shake things up” or to make it more interesting.

Why would I pay 2-3k for a deck that might be unusable just because?

I watch because I play. If I didn’t play I really wouldn’t watch. Wizards have miles more to do in order to make MTG something enjoyable for non players.

Like being able to follow your favourite player during tournaments and so on.

I sold my collection and play red decks. Not worth the hassle really. You are not invested in the game financialy. How come?

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By: Darcy Hartwick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/#comment-2128582 Thu, 03 Aug 2017 23:13:39 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15025#comment-2128582 In reply to Trevor Holmes.

Yes most standard cards dont make it in modern. The overarching question remains: why does modern have to change? And if it does why is massive change preferable to incremental changes? I think the number of standard cards impacting modern has been too much if anything: push, eldrazi, delve, company, blessed alliance, brutality, allied fetch, eidolon, swiftspear, revelry, anger, ceremonius rejection, etc and thats not close to comprehensive nor even looking at fringe or brew tier.

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/#comment-2128581 Thu, 03 Aug 2017 21:26:42 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15025#comment-2128581 In reply to Darcy Hartwick.

Fair, maybe some elaboration would have helped. Sets are designed for Standard, it’s difficult to affect Modern too much without disrupting the acceptable power level for Standard. Bannings/unbannings can dodge this.

Chess is the greatest game in the world, so that doesn’t really apply. Wouldn’t mind banning Knights, my brother always made illegal moves.

Thanks,
Trevor

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By: Darcy Hartwick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/#comment-2128580 Thu, 03 Aug 2017 21:07:37 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15025#comment-2128580 I feel like you should explain why “shakeups” are important or good, and why new cards are insufficient on that front if you’re taking the edgy stance that bannings are a good thing.

Chess hasnt had a shakeup ban in forever, still a pretty good game. Modern has like 5 tier one decks and a dozen tier two decks at any given time – and each individual game is still its own challenge to play out and can be entertaining to watch. New cards make a constant march into the competitive scene, and frankly its almost always better that they are subtle (courser of kruphix, kolaghans command, spell queller) than overbearing (eldrazi, collected company). Modern changing a little bit every release is fine.

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/#comment-2128579 Thu, 03 Aug 2017 20:21:42 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15025#comment-2128579 In reply to Graeme Holliday.

Graeme,

Thanks for the comment! I admitted in the article that my perspective on bannings is undoubtedly influenced by the fact that I don’t have a paper collection to worry about, but I disagree with your statement that its hard for me to see the finance perspective. I completely understand, getting your only deck banned is rough for anybody. I’m taking the unpopular stance that regular bannings/unbannings could breathe new life into the format and generate more interest than damage. This shouldn’t be done without a long-term answer to secondary market prices for Modern staples, but that is a whole other article by itself.

Twin needed a ban. Every deck had to prepare for it, and the deck pushed out other control decks like Birthing Pod pushed out other midrange decks. Playing against Twin was oppressive, as you always had to respect the potential combo whether they had it or not.

Thanks,
Trevor

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By: Trevor Holmes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/#comment-2128578 Thu, 03 Aug 2017 20:16:02 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15025#comment-2128578 In reply to Winston Oyadomari.

Winston,

Thanks for the comment! Glad to see another LoTR/Destiny player in the wild, LoTR was great but SWCCG is the greatest game in the world.

Thanks for reading!
Trevor

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By: Graeme Holliday https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/#comment-2128577 Thu, 03 Aug 2017 19:55:51 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15025#comment-2128577 Hi Trevor. I want start by saying that I support Modern returning to the Pro Tour. But, I mostly disagree with you here. First of all, you being a person who doesn’t have any investment into the game, it’s probably hard for you to see into the finance perspective of many players. Frequent bannings will cause Modern to become far more expensive, and it defeats the main purpose of an eternal format. Secondly, the Modern metagame is always in flux it seems, and new sets are perfect for adding a little spice but not invalidating someone’s deck choice by reshaping the meta. “Shakeup” bans are unnecessary to keep the format interesting. Fortunately Wizards has stated there won’t be any shakeup bans, so hopefully they’ll follow through. Finally, you placed Twin in your list of cards that supposedly were in obvious need of a ban. I couldn’t disagree more–Twin didn’t have too high of a metagame share and didn’t break any other ban rules, so shouldn’t have been banned in order to spice up the Pro Tour.

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By: Winston Oyadomari https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/bilbao-effect-chance-change-modern-forever/#comment-2128576 Thu, 03 Aug 2017 19:06:14 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15025#comment-2128576 Hey! Modern player and long time reader here.

This post made me register and comment just because you mentioned two games I absolutely love: SW Destiny and LotR CCg. The latter is arguably the best card game I’ve ever played.

It’s a shame you had to pick Poe Dameron, though 😀

Regarding the article, great piece. I myself don’t think anything will change before Bilbao. Modern is too wild, too wide and in constant flux to be perceived as broken by the eve of the PT.

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