Comments on: Control Decks in Modern: Exploring the Variations in Viable Archetypes https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/control-decks-modern-exploring-variations-viable-archetypes/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Wed, 06 Sep 2017 17:09:14 +0000 hourly 1 By: Ben Lunsford https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/control-decks-modern-exploring-variations-viable-archetypes/#comment-2128705 Wed, 06 Sep 2017 17:09:14 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15212#comment-2128705 From a Cavalier (UVA ’04) Burn player to a Hokie Control player, thank you for the very detailed analysis of this archetype! Looking forward to all your future articles.

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By: IxidorsDreams https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/control-decks-modern-exploring-variations-viable-archetypes/#comment-2128704 Fri, 01 Sep 2017 12:36:37 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15212#comment-2128704 If you Blue mages ever figure out Shadow of Doubt is hybrid mana, I’ll cry myself to sleep more than i already do #blackmageforlife #counterspellsruinlives

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By: Ryland Taliaferro https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/control-decks-modern-exploring-variations-viable-archetypes/#comment-2128703 Thu, 31 Aug 2017 21:33:25 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15212#comment-2128703 In reply to Jason Schousboe.

Hey artfranc007!

Jason hit the nail on the head here. While I think there are many positive things to be said about Lantern’s viability, I only had so much room to discuss, and as such, stuck to the Cryptic Command style control decks. Perhaps I should be working on another article discussing the available prison decks (of which I think Lantern is the strongest by far).

Thanks for reading!

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By: Ryland Taliaferro https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/control-decks-modern-exploring-variations-viable-archetypes/#comment-2128702 Thu, 31 Aug 2017 21:28:21 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15212#comment-2128702 In reply to aaron newbom.

Hey Aaron!

I agree wholeheartedly. I think that the style of deck you are describing would be a much better modern deck than the typical Esper Control lists. I also agree that it would be more of a midrange deck than anything else, which kind of puts it out of the purview of this particular article. Either way, I think you are right.

Thanks for reading!

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By: artfranc007 https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/control-decks-modern-exploring-variations-viable-archetypes/#comment-2128701 Thu, 31 Aug 2017 21:25:22 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15212#comment-2128701 In reply to Jason Schousboe.

I would argue that prison is just a sub class of control, like burn is a sub class of aggro. Prison decks “control” the board state with permanents instead of spells and usually generate virtual card advantage rather than actual. However, they both have the same endgame which is the create an unwinnable game-state for the opponent. I could understand of the title was blue-based attrition decks in modern, but it seems like a very narrow article for such a broad topic.

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By: Ryland Taliaferro https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/control-decks-modern-exploring-variations-viable-archetypes/#comment-2128700 Thu, 31 Aug 2017 21:24:17 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15212#comment-2128700 In reply to Roland F. Rivera Santiago.

Hey Roland!

I’m glad you enjoyed it, thanks. It seems that I have had a difference experience than both you and David. I have absolutely loved Farmland and I continue to be impressed with it. Many people have moved to 25 lands in their lists (rather than 26) and I think Farmland is the perfect way for me to “split the difference.”

That said, I have also enjoyed having Temple of Enlightenment. They both can be better than the other in a specific spot, so I like the hedge. If you told me I was only allowed to play two copies of one of those cards however, it would undoubtedly be Irrgated Farmland.

Concerning Jeskai’s flex slots – I prefer Clique in the main. Both Clique and Geist are good in similar matchups (combo), albeit for different reasons. I prefer the smoothness of having another instant speed threat and in addition feel like Clique is better in a larger number of matchups. As far as the list above I would make the following changes:

-3 Geist

+1 Mana Leak
+1 Lightning Helix
+1 Vendilion Clique

Thanks for reading!

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By: Ryland Taliaferro https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/control-decks-modern-exploring-variations-viable-archetypes/#comment-2128699 Thu, 31 Aug 2017 21:12:12 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15212#comment-2128699 In reply to Darcy Hartwick.

Hey Darcy!

I appreciate the kind words and your thoughts. I certainly love a Shadow of Doubt, and it’s nice that it has incidental search hate other than just the land denial element. Once you start playing a larger number, like 4, I imagine Spreading Seas is just better.

I haven’t had that experience with UW myself since so many of the cards cantrip. Certainly there are fewer big draw spells (only 1 Sphinx’s, 1 Jace) but the sheer number of draw 1’s keep you going through your deck at a pretty reasonable rate. Just my two cents.

Thanks for reading!

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By: Darcy Hartwick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/control-decks-modern-exploring-variations-viable-archetypes/#comment-2128698 Thu, 31 Aug 2017 21:05:47 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15212#comment-2128698 In reply to aaron newbom.

Uw draw go plus esper charm (and fatal push) is quite literally what esper draw go is.

Most people who try cutting charm from the deck come back to report that charm is essential to the archetype working as designed – interact or draw, win at your leisure once control is established, 1-2 win conditions in the deck.

You’re right in the abstract that black is more tapout – but the deck isnt playing in the abstract, its playing two black cards one of which is largely considered integral. Bolts are cool but they dont fit the gameplan as well. They are better in some (maybe even many) matches but the ability to dome for 3 isnt what your archetypal draw go control deck wants to do. You want universal answers and crippling card advantage.

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By: Jason Schousboe https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/control-decks-modern-exploring-variations-viable-archetypes/#comment-2128697 Thu, 31 Aug 2017 18:54:19 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15212#comment-2128697 In reply to artfranc007.

Notwithstanding the deck name, a strong argument can be made that Lantern Control is actually prison, not control. We’ve actually classified it that way ourselves on this site before. In any case, I think we could probably agree that the blue-based, permission- and removal-heavy decks like Grixis and UW have more in common with each other than they do with Lantern (which is a pretty odd animal any way you cut it).

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By: artfranc007 https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/control-decks-modern-exploring-variations-viable-archetypes/#comment-2128696 Thu, 31 Aug 2017 17:19:08 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15212#comment-2128696 doesn’t mention lantern control? lmao

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By: aaron newbom https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/control-decks-modern-exploring-variations-viable-archetypes/#comment-2128695 Thu, 31 Aug 2017 17:07:06 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15212#comment-2128695 I never understood why people think esper should be the super draw-go control deck.

Black is the most tapout control color
Whites really good on tap out control.
Blue is the only draw go color.

Red works better as draw go

I think the key mistake people make is being draw-go in esper when jeskai is simply better at draw go.

Play hand control
Play tasigur
Play Gideon
Play lingering souls
I’ve played ALOT of esper control in modern over time and I’ve found esper midrange is the better way to look at it.

Not UW draw go plus esper charm

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By: David Ernenwein https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/control-decks-modern-exploring-variations-viable-archetypes/#comment-2128694 Wed, 30 Aug 2017 22:01:48 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15212#comment-2128694 In reply to Roland F. Rivera Santiago.

I can’t speak for Ryland, but I’ve tried Farmland and was unimpressed. Temple is generally better since you get value from playing it early and it costs no mana. Smoothing out early draws is extremely important, more than finding action late. Cycling Farmland late is ok, but you have to pay mana. And scrying is still fine late game.

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By: Roland F. Rivera Santiago https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/control-decks-modern-exploring-variations-viable-archetypes/#comment-2128693 Wed, 30 Aug 2017 21:22:10 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15212#comment-2128693 I think this was a very accurate and well-informed take about control decks in Modern, so first and foremost I’d like to congratulate you on that. My second question is whether you’d ever consider a second Irrigated Farmland over the Temple of Enlightenment in your UW list. The Temples somewhat underwhelm me, and I can’t help but wonder if Farmland can do better. Lastly, I wanted to ask your opinion on Jeskai’s creature flex spots – would you prefer to suit up with Geist or Clique in the main, and why? Thanks for your thoughts.

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By: Darcy Hartwick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/control-decks-modern-exploring-variations-viable-archetypes/#comment-2128692 Wed, 30 Aug 2017 20:53:03 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15212#comment-2128692 Good article and good description of the key differences (burn vs mana denial). I play esper control and recently added two shadow of doubt and two ghost quarter with some surgicals in the board to shore up tron/valakut. Jury is still out overall but I love casting shadow of doubt for the turn 2 fetchland blowout or thwarting a gifts ungiven.

But if esper has an advantage it has to be esper charm plus fatal push since those are the only black cards! I think better players have commented that charm makes good matchups better, whereas red for burn makes bad matchups better and this is the key reason jeskai is stronger.

As for uw I loved seas and tec edge too but otherwise I felt like I ran out of cards too easily and was stuck topdecking. Esper churns through its deck rapidly with charm, think twice, snap, and 2 revs. Omens and seas have high variance on their impact and some games two mana sorcery draw a card is just a death sentence.

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By: Ryland Taliaferro https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/control-decks-modern-exploring-variations-viable-archetypes/#comment-2128691 Wed, 30 Aug 2017 19:22:02 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15212#comment-2128691 In reply to Benjamin Alan Mohr.

That is the promo Supreme Verdict. I believe it was a buy-a-box promo. Thanks for reading!

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By: Benjamin Alan Mohr https://www.quietspeculation.com/2017/08/control-decks-modern-exploring-variations-viable-archetypes/#comment-2128690 Wed, 30 Aug 2017 18:22:10 +0000 http://quietspeculation.com/?p=15212#comment-2128690 Thanks for the article! Quick question: what is that first image?

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