Comments on: 20/20 Visions: 1st at a PPTQ With Monkey Grow https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/ Play More, Win More, Pay Less Sun, 19 Mar 2017 00:28:21 +0000 hourly 1 By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126700 Sun, 19 Mar 2017 00:28:21 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126700 In reply to Michael Lewis.

Seeing this late, but thanks for the line! Glad I helped 🙂

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By: Michael Lewis https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126699 Thu, 06 Oct 2016 05:42:47 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126699 Thank-you so much for such a long, dedicated body of work. I find myself very clearly in Temur Aggro in Modern…ranging from budget Delver/Mandrills lists to Deleirum Revelers/traverse lists to Prowess builts…all various combinations of 16 creature Temur builds…and your work here helps me understand the meta so much more without having to go through it even if our builds differ significantly…I’ve recently got 4 Snapcasters now…which is funny as I sometimes wish my deck was more budget with Delvers and Mandrills sometimes…still just wanted to say thanks I”m looking forward to reading more of your reports they are exactly the perspective and angle on the game that I enjoy playing and learning to how to improve on…the lesson to stick with a deck and learn the format is very apt

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By: ColumnMissing https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126698 Fri, 30 Sep 2016 01:04:41 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126698 How do you feel about this deck compared to Grixis Delver? I’m leaning towards picking one of these two as my modern deck.

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By: Kevork Agh https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126697 Mon, 19 Sep 2016 18:52:26 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126697 In reply to Jordan Boisvert.

Dont give in! Monkey Grow is a great deck name :p We dont name cars Black Family Sports Sedan, or White Electric Subcompact.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126696 Sun, 18 Sep 2016 07:40:48 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126696 In reply to Taylor Goodland.

Just prepare for Modern’s best strategies and you’ll be fine. I’ve generally found competitive events here and elsewhere to reflect with surprising accuracy what I see on MN’s Top Decks page. For what it’s worth, I play in 2-3 local events weekly and haven’t seen that much Affinity lately. Chord, on the other hand…

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126695 Sun, 18 Sep 2016 07:38:12 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126695 In reply to Zach Smith.

Addressing the issue of Modern deck names (which I think are a mess in general) in a future piece. Stay tuned!

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126694 Sun, 18 Sep 2016 07:13:18 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126694 In reply to Matt Morgan.

The main draw to Seal in my opinion is that it can be cast pre-emptively, such as before resolving Reveler and being forced to dump it. I don’t like that it’s not an instant/sorcery for Delver and doesn’t deal damage.

A major strike against Seal is that it doesn’t open opponents up to surprise tempo swings. I’ve had players slam haymakers like Batterskull or Vedalken Shackles plus activation against me and then get blown out by a two-mana spell trading for their five-mana investment.

In my many kitchen table matches against Counter-Cat, drawing Revelry and losing it after being forced into a position where I need to cast the Reveler, and then losing to Scepter, really stinks. Granted, Counter-Cat isn’t a deck I’d expect to face at an actual Modern event, but this kind of scenario can come up against other decks too.

Ancient Grudge would flash back after hitting the grave, but it doesn’t also hit Rest in Peace, and we only have two slots in the sideboard to disrupt artifacts/enchantments. Seal addresses this issue and I’m planning to try out a pair soon over the Revelries. It’s also possible that a split is correct.

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By: Jordan Boisvert https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126693 Sun, 18 Sep 2016 07:07:19 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126693 In reply to Chris Striker.

They were great every time I drew them. I love this 75 going forward.

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By: Kevork Agh https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126692 Sat, 17 Sep 2016 19:31:16 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126692 In reply to Jason Schousboe.

Im not sure how many readers this blog has to have to take one reader’s comments so seriously. Grow is an archetype, and if some people get confused by words outside of their general vocabulary, then its their problem. Ive seen Monkey Grow used dozens of times in articles here in the past year, this is the first time one person complained. Dont need to have knee-jerk reactions here. Its competitive Magic, serious players will understand the intricacies of archetypes, and sub-archetypes. My three cents.

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By: Zach Smith https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126691 Sat, 17 Sep 2016 19:15:43 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126691 In reply to Jason Schousboe.

Sorry I probably went a little over board. I didn’t mean to be so harsh. I apologize for that. It is good writing, and the click bait thing was a little excessive. This response was great though. Fantastic customer service. Someone commented saying that giving it a title like “Temur Dever; Monkey Grow” might be more appropriate for the article names. I like that idea a lot. It gives the author room to brand his personal flavor of the build that is a part of a broader archetype. You guys are great. I was an occasional visitor, I will be here much more now. Thanks guys.

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By: Jason Schousboe https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126690 Sat, 17 Sep 2016 17:50:34 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126690 In reply to Zach Smith.

Gonna try to clear the air here and clarify a few things. First of all, you are all correct about the history of the “grow” moniker. I’m an old player myself (started around Revised), so I’m familiar with these old deck names and I agree they add character and color to the game. That said, most players are not in my camp, and Modern Nexus (along with most sites) aims to educate and provide resources for new players as well.

As for Temur Delver, it is an established archetype, and Jordan’s is just one build. Not all of them run Hooting Mandrills. While I’m loathe to prevent Jordan from using his own name for an archetype he’s helped develop, I also want his articles to be intelligible and clear. It gets pretty confusing when a deck that’s only one or two maindeck cards off suddenly acquires a new name.

So I hope you’ll understand if we as a content producer shy away from the more esoteric names that require background knowledge. Modern (and Magic) has enough barriers to entry for the new player already.

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By: Chris Striker https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126689 Sat, 17 Sep 2016 16:38:48 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126689 Congratulations! I’m glad to see delver decks picking up steam in Modern– we need more tempo decks :). Hoping you make it to the top! How were the Spites?

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By: Bryan Mueller https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126688 Sat, 17 Sep 2016 15:04:51 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126688 In reply to Zach Smith.

“Grow” is an archetype that became popular in the late 90s which originally used Quirion Dryad, but can refer to any green-based tempo deck with creatures that grow (with Tarmogoyf favored over the Dryad in recent lists), and “Monkey” refers to Hooting Mandrills which are a key part of the tempo plan with Stubborn Denial. Jordan has been playing, tweaking, and winning with this deck long before Todd Anderson T8’ed with his version. Calling this article clickbait just because you don’t like the name of the deck is pretty laughable. Rage more?

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By: Matt Morgan https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126687 Sat, 17 Sep 2016 14:40:32 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126687 Congrats on the finish. I’ve been running a pretty similar list leaving out the Shoals for a few other removal spells. One thing I’ve found super helpful for the grave hate and Chalice of the Void out of the side is Seal of Primordium. The 2 mana isn’t ideal but having a spell down to “cast” for free later if the Chalice/Rest in Peace come out has been a game saver several times, especially against the Eldrazi decks. Feeding Tarmogoyf in a different way has been a nice added bonus too. I enjoy the articles and reports, keep up the great work!

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By: Darcy Hartwick https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126686 Sat, 17 Sep 2016 14:00:39 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126686 In reply to Zach Smith.

Just chiming in to agree with the sentiment. I like the deck (and the sultai version) but really dislike cute and unnecessary names. To the extent grow is a legit deck name id think it applies to things that get bigger over time – quirion dryad, vinelasher kudzu or some heroic cards. Goyf fits but that alone cant seriously be more relevant than the rest of the deck which is temur delver (delver and lots of instants and sorceries).

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By: ben coley https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126685 Sat, 17 Sep 2016 11:54:58 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126685 In reply to Jason Schousboe.

For what it’s worth, the progenitor of this deck was called “miracle gro” and ran quirion dryad. This was a very well known deck for a long time and is a legendary piece of magic history, but it’s understandable that newer players wouldn’t be familiar with the name.
It’s always the case that decks get “nickname” nomenclature, but that’s fine! Decks like solar flare, tin fins and boat brew are the stuff of legend.

Don’t fall into the trap of naming all decks “colour: flagship spell” because it’s boring! We need those classic nicknames to make modern a vibrant format.

But if you must make a concession to this, give decks a title;subtitle format such as rug midrange;monkey grow

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By: Taylor Goodland https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126684 Sat, 17 Sep 2016 11:00:46 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126684 Congratulations on the win! I managed to luck dog a smaller PPTQ in Burlington, VT (only 15 people) so I’ll be heading to Verdun (Montreal) December 11 for the RPTQ. Judging from your report, it sounds like you might be at that one too! I hope to test my mettle against your deck! A friend of mine says that Montreal is known for affinity. Do you have any meta advice for the RPTQ to a relatively new player that got lucky? Are there any events leading up to it that I should go to to scout the other decks?

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By: Lech Dutkiewicz https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126683 Sat, 17 Sep 2016 04:56:44 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126683 Congratz! I’m glad your commitment and hard work on this archetype paid off.
Thanks for the detailed report. It’s cool that you have matchups, where you bring in all 15 cards. It’s quite unique, and I believe it makes life much harder for your opponents, since your deck changes really much after sb. Good job!

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By: Jason Schousboe https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126682 Sat, 17 Sep 2016 04:06:08 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126682 In reply to Zach Smith.

Editor in Chief here. Your criticism is duly noted. One of our current projects here is to come up with a standardized naming convention for all Modern decks. This will affect our Monthly Metagame Reports, but also titles of articles and basically every other way we refer to a deck. Apologies if you felt misled by the title.

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By: CryptoSC https://www.quietspeculation.com/2016/09/visions-pptq-monkey-grow/#comment-2126681 Sat, 17 Sep 2016 03:21:19 +0000 http://34.200.137.49/?p=11581#comment-2126681 Congratz!
When is the RPTQ linked to the PPTQ
Also are there any large modern events coming up that you plan to attend, would love to see the deck on camera 😀

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